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  1. #1
    null Jonny's Avatar
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    Default The Downing Effect & The Dunning-Druger Effect

    The Downing effect describes the tendency of people with below average intelligence quotients (IQs) to overestimate their intelligence, and of people with above average intelligence to underestimate their intelligence. An individual's predictable propensity to misjudge their own intelligence was first noted by C. L. Downing who conducted the first cross cultural studies on perceived intelligence.[citation needed]

    His studies also evidenced that an individual's ability to estimate others' intelligence accurately was proportional to their own intelligence. This means the lower the IQ score of an individual, the less capably he or she can appreciate and accurately appraise others' intelligence. The lower someone's IQ, the more likely one is to rate oneself as more intelligent than those around them. Conversely, people with a high IQ, while better at appraising others' intelligence overall, are still likely to rate people of similar intelligence to themselves as having higher IQs.

    The disparity between actual IQ and perceived IQ has also been noted between genders by British psychologist Adrian Furnham. Men are prone to overestimate their intelligence by around 5 points while women are likely to underestimate their IQ by a similar proportion.[1][2]
    The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which "unskilled [...] people reach erroneous conclusions and make unfortunate choices but their incompetence robs them of the metacognitive ability to realize it."[1] The unskilled therefore suffer from illusory superiority, rating their own ability as above average, much higher than it actually is, while the highly skilled underrate their abilities, suffering from illusory inferiority. This leads to the perverse situation in which less competent people rate their own ability higher than more competent people. It also explains why actual competence may weaken self-confidence: because competent individuals falsely assume that others have an equivalent understanding. "Thus, the miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others."[1]

    Similar notions have been expressed -- albeit less scientifically -- for some time. Dunning and Kruger themselves quote Charles Darwin ("Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge")[1] and Bertrand Russell ("One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision."[2][3]). The Dunning-Kruger Effect is not, however, concerned narrowly with high-order cognitive skills (much less their application in the political realm during a particular era, which is what Russell was talking about.[4]) Nor is it specifically limited to the observation that ignorance of a topic is conducive to overconfident assertions about it, which is what Darwin was saying.[5] Indeed, Dunning et al. cite a study saying that 94% of college professors rank their work as "above average" (relative to their peers), to underscore that the highly intelligent and informed are hardly exempt.[2] Rather, the effect is about paradoxical defects in perception of skill, in oneself and others, regardless of the particular skill and its intellectual demands, whether it is chess, playing golf[6] or driving a car[2].
    Opinions? Observations?
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Pixelholic's Avatar
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    Explains about 99% of politicians I think.

    I would like to say "yeah I underestimate myself because I'm so smart" but I'm worried that that would come off as overly narcissistic. I see this a lot in my really good students who downplay their abilities or are overly critical.
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.” -Nietzsche

  3. #3
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    i like being somewhere in between, if i were to really think about it. i think i can appreciate intelligence, and i'm not going to unnecessarily argue with it or underestimate it.

  4. #4
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Smile In God We Trust

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
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    Of course it makes perfect sense if you live in an anti-intellectual, sexist society. Naturally intellectuals and women will devalue themselves to fit in.

    And if you live in an anti-intellectual, sexist society that worships the dollar, then the temptation to devalue ourselves is overwhelming.

    So it is vital we return the compliment in kind and say how we despise the anti-intellectual, sexist, dollar worshippers.

  5. #5
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    It was already in the NT threads within the last week but your title is much more diplomatic, haha. http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...re-stupid.html

    TBH, I am intimidated by anyone who I think is intelligent even if in reality, I may be smarter (based on others' assessments). So in essence, I seem to overestimate others' IQ while down-grading my own (subconsciously).

    Even if you are insanely smart (140+), there is always going to be someone smarter than you unless you're Marilyn Von Savant.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Little_Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
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    I know I'm a dumb-ass. I'm just sick of all the intellectual ^^^^ing around. No wait then according to your quote that makes me smart? Okay, so if I give myself high self-esteem and act smart then now I'm dumb...so if I'm sure about something and can prove it then that makes me dumb... Ah, another pointless conundrum. You know what; EVERYONE IS A FAGGOT. DON'T BE A FAGGOT.

  7. #7
    Senior Member InsatiableCuriosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little_Sticks View Post
    I know I'm a dumb-ass. I'm just sick of all the intellectual ^^^^ing around. No wait then according to your quote that makes me smart? Okay, so if I give myself high self-esteem and act smart then now I'm dumb...so if I'm sure about something and can prove it then that makes me dumb... Ah, another pointless conundrum. You know what; EVERYONE IS A FAGGOT. DON'T BE A FAGGOT.
    Do you have a complex?? What is your obsession with the word faggot?? If the discussion is as you call it intellectual you have the power to be adult and choose to participate in an adult fashion or go elsewhere to a less intellectual discussion?

    Is that a problem for you?
    "Study hard what interests you the most in the most undisciplined, irreverent and original manner possible."
    — Richard P. Feynman

    "Never tell a person a thing is impossible. G*d/the Universe may have been waiting all this time for someone ignorant enough of the impossibility to do just that thing."
    author unknown

  8. #8
    Senior Member InsatiableCuriosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitseleh View Post
    It was already in the NT threads within the last week but your title is much more diplomatic, haha. http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...re-stupid.html

    TBH, I am intimidated by anyone who I think is intelligent even if in reality, I may be smarter (based on others' assessments). So in essence, I seem to overestimate others' IQ while down-grading my own (subconsciously).

    Even if you are insanely smart (140+), there is always going to be someone smarter than you unless you're Marilyn Von Savant.
    Great links and interesting application in TC at times
    "Study hard what interests you the most in the most undisciplined, irreverent and original manner possible."
    — Richard P. Feynman

    "Never tell a person a thing is impossible. G*d/the Universe may have been waiting all this time for someone ignorant enough of the impossibility to do just that thing."
    author unknown

  9. #9
    Starcrossed Seafarer Aquarelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
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    I've been seeing a lot of evidence of the Dunning-Druger Effect in another (non-MBTI related) forum in regards to some political debates....

    I wasn't aware that this phenomenon had a name. Thanks for the psychology lesson!!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by InsatiableCuriosity View Post
    Do you have a complex?? What is your obsession with the word faggot?? If the discussion is as you call it intellectual you have the power to be adult and choose to participate in an adult fashion or go elsewhere to a less intellectual discussion?

    Is that a problem for you?
    I have found the reasons to Little Sticks antics: Enfant Provocateur

    He just needs a new mommy

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