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  1. #1
    Senior Member Little_Sticks's Avatar
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    Default Intelligent Design

    Here [happy people].

    Something to talk about.

    [YOUTUBE="VVT6N3QBj54"]A War On Science[/YOUTUBE]
    Last edited by Kasper; 02-14-2011 at 05:57 AM. Reason: bad word is bad

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    Senior Member Chris_in_Orbit's Avatar
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    Here's a question from an nonreligious heathen such as myself: why do these things have to be contradictory?

    Why can't evolution be the means by which god made what he made?

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_Orbit View Post
    Here's a question from an nonreligious heathen such as myself: why do these things have to be contradictory?

    Why can't evolution be the means by which god made what he made?
    I wonder this all the time. Politics, I guess. It's not enough to be right, the other person has to be wrong. That's why I don't have a problem with ID even though I believe in evolution. ID has been co-opted by evangelicals to try to put religion in schools, but the fact that they perverted it doesn't mean the general idea is without merit. Science can explain how things happened, but not why they happened at all. I don't see the problem with speculating on that in a way that doesn't contradict known science.
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    Senior Member Stevo's Avatar
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    Intelligent Design is a despicable tactic employed teach religion in public schools. It is not science as it is not falsifiable or indeed testable, not parsimonious, and just intellectually lazy. Even though they don't state it and even try to hide it, when they say "Intelligent Designer" they don't mean aliens, or other super-intelligent life. It's quite obvious they mean the Christian god.

  5. #5
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_Orbit View Post
    Here's a question from an nonreligious heathen such as myself: why do these things have to be contradictory?

    Why can't evolution be the means by which god made what he made?
    It seems like only a temporary answer, if we accept every natural process as being gods means, god quickly runs out of things to do.

    An entirely natural god is no god at all.
    Act your age not your enneagram number.

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    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    This is a funny topic to watch people go haywire over.
    Like a couple of guys have said, nothing can be proven one way or another with philosophy or current science.
    So why bother?


    Meh, i'll just sit over here and watch you all fight to the death


    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  7. #7
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    It seems like only a temporary answer, if we accept every natural process as being gods means, god quickly runs out of things to do..
    God may run out of things to do, but not necessarily of things to be. It all depends upon one's understanding of God, all of which are fundamentally subjective.

  8. #8
    AKA Nunki Polaris's Avatar
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    Intelligent Design makes some interesting philosophical points, but speculative philosophy has no place in a Science classroom. Science is concerned with things that can be tested in a laboratory, and basic observations about the nature of consciousness (of which intelligent design is an example, in spite of the extravagant conclusions drawn from it by religious people) are only related to the extent that they give scientists a loose framework in which to design testable hypotheses. A given framework might consist of anything from Discordianism to Christianity, and still have a pre-scientific relevance, provided it serves as the impetus for creating experiments that lead to new and hopefully useful discoveries.

    In theory that puts ID on the same footing as any other kind of basic belief, but in practice ID has focused on tearing down theories of evolution (thus belying its creationist motives, since ID as such is perfectly compatible with evolution), without succeeding or providing any testable alternatives of its own. This puts ID in a category of being not so much a field of science as a critic who is determined to keep on beating a dead horse, not with the intention of killing it but of somehow bringing it back to life through acts of mutilation.
    [ Ni > Ti > Fe > Fi > Ne > Te > Si > Se ][ 4w5 sp/sx ][ RLOAI ][ IEI-Ni ]

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    Senior Member Pixelholic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_Orbit View Post
    Here's a question from an nonreligious heathen such as myself: why do these things have to be contradictory?

    Why can't evolution be the means by which god made what he made?
    It diminishes the role of Yahweh in the minds of ardent Christians. It also gets rid of the "special" factor of humans if we share a common ancestor with apes and aren't designed.

    That's not even getting into Christian Literalism.

    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    Like a couple of guys have said, nothing can be proven one way or another with philosophy or current science.
    So why bother?
    One side has mountains of research done over a hundred and fifty years by thousands of people all pointing to one theory and strengthening it.

    The other one has the holy book of a Bronze age tribe.


    The biggest problem is that people don't understand what a scientific theory actually is. Intelligent design is a theological idea disguised as bad science designed (heh) to confuse people who don't have a good grasp of how basic science works.

    This shouldn't even be a debate.
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.” -Nietzsche

  10. #10
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    One would think that seperating intelligent design from science favors the suggestions made by concept of intelligent design. However, I think the mere presumption that there is a dichotomy is a false assumption and a lie. For that matter, any dichotomy that makes a comparison of reality is a lie. There is what is, and what is not, what is true, and what is untrue, what is reality and what is simply made up. Science is a means of determining what is true with as much certainty as possible. Removing science from spiritual truth for any reason other than maintaining objectivity amidst the subjectivity of human suppositions of spiritual truth is a false separation made by those wishing to distance themselves from the stigma of religion. The fact is, religion is highly flawed, and man-made just like science. Spiritual truth and scientific truth are one and the same (if there were a means for us to measure the spiritual like the physical) and any "scientist" who discounts the nature of spiritual ideas simply due to their immeasurable nature is limiting themselves and in my opinion not much of a scientist at all. The true scientist is willing to venture into any territory and entirely open to reality as it exists, seen or unseen, provable or not.

    What of spirituality? Personally, I think it is very real. The mere fact that we are thinking about it and arguing about it suggests that we have a spiritual component. What would be the purpose otherwise? Why else would we question our purpose in the first place? If it weren't reality, we would have never thought to make the consideration. You might say this contradicts what I've said above about things being true or untrue, but even untrue things exist as a perverted truth.

    Even a very creative and bizarre artist like Salvador Dali paints something I have in my room, a clock. There is a reason a watch is used as the metaphor of intelligent design... it is used to measure time. There is no such thing as human inspired originality. Everything that we have been has been before and will be again to both ends of time. Like a watch we are created within time and it's whim. People attempt to discredit the concept of spiritual truth with things like the flying spaghetti monster because they seem to forget flying, spaghetti, and monstrosities are things we experience in physical reality. If you think about it, I'm sure you too will find that the only true originality was origin itself, our inception, our creation, and all consciousness henceforce can be traced back to the beginning. Where, then does the consciousness of the spiritual truth/reality come from? There is only one explanation: it existed, and can be assumed to still exist like time and watches and the idea of purpose. There is only 1 other instance of true originality and that is the life of Jesus, and Jesus himself stated "I tell you the truth". This is because like our origin Jesus was the creator and not creation. Truth is definitive, equal to and and verified by our existence.

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