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  1. #21
    Klingon Warrior Princess Patches's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    The problem with intelligent design is that it is dishonest, for it is simply a cover for creationism.
    Jesus christ, I agree with something Victor said.

    Someone alert the press.
    “Everybody has a secret world inside of them. All of the people of the world, I mean everybody. No matter how dull and boring they are on the outside, inside
    them they've all got unimaginable, magnificent, wonderful, stupid, amazing worlds. Not just one world. Hundreds of them. Thousands maybe.” -Neil Gaiman

    ~

  2. #22
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlippoth View Post
    The ironic thing is science as we know it came out of Judaic/Christian/Islamic tradition.
    By a recourse to antiquity.

  3. #23

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    I have to say that the theories of intelligent design that I've seen have been as absurd and reductionist frequently as the standard evolutionary theories but then I am afterall what Professor Dawkins and his ilk would refer to as a "Faith Head", whatever legitimacy I considered them to have years ago I dont consider them to have any longer.

    The constant defensiveness and hostility is very telling, I suspect they have become the very thing they once sought to oppose only with different hallmarks and colours.

  4. #24
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    By a recourse to antiquity.
    I wouldn't call the 1600's antiquity.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlippoth View Post
    I wouldn't call the 1600's antiquity.
    Then you have a strange concept of science.

  6. #26
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    what is there to talk about? intelligent design is clearly an attempt to explain something that cant be explained with their science. this whole intelligent design thing is based on that there was an intelligent creator, if they cant explain this intelligent creator, the theory is based on nothing. its fundamentally the same as giving an explanation that god did it to anything that people dont understand. they search something that darwinism(or science that they themselves dont understand) cant explain and say that god did it. it doesent matter if other scientists can explain it or not, since scientists do admit that they dont know everything, if they knew everything, there wouldnt be any scientific research. one good example of this was that bacteria that they didnt understand how it was fundamentally built and used it as a proof for this intelligent design. funny thing about this is that scientists were able to explain how this bacteria was built with science, those promoters who used this bacteria as a proof that there is an intelligent designer just didnt know about it. that mathematician was pretty retard, even tho he must know alot about math, but he fails to apply his math with reality.

    what comes to those religious people at dover school board, they(and everyone like them) should be taken any sort of power away from them. they clearly dont know how to use this sort of power and use it for promoting their idiotic subjective beliefs.

    overally i see good and bad about these attempts on challenging science. the good thing is that those people give a boost on scientific research and sort of challenges science to look deeper into things that people are trying to explain with "god did it". on the other hand majority of people in many places are religious fools(im not saying that every religious person is a fool, but most of them are, especially these people who follow some religion strictly and simply deny everything that questions anything that they believe in) who believe this sort of things because they simply dont know anything about science. if enough people start to believe on this sort of things, it doesent matter anymore if science could explain that god didnt do this, because they believe in what they want to believe in and they want to believe in some intelligent creator because for some reason it makes them feel good.

    i think there should be some sort of scientific board of the best scientists in the world that would do research on things that people vote for.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  7. #27
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Then you have a strange concept of science.
    And you like to bait conflict. I was talking about the development of science, not what we've codified it as.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlippoth View Post
    And you like to bait conflict.
    Your initial post made it sound as if science sprouted from those religions. That simply is not true. Antique knowledge, acquired through antique science, has always been present in the educated world. It is then due to the Renaissance, a recourse to and even stronger influence by antique knowledge, that 'modern science' came to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qlippoth View Post
    I was talking about the development of science, not what we've codified it as.
    You can, by the same token, say that science came out of monarchy.

  9. #29
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    You can, by the same token, say that science came out of monarchy.
    I think it's important to point out that at one time there was no difference between science and religion.

    The success of science was born of the incubation of Greek thought in a Christian world. I'd qualify that as coming out. Sure, the principals of science may have been practiced in isolated situations. All great ideas manifest several times, it's where they take root is what counts.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlippoth View Post
    I think it's important to point out that at one time there was no difference between science and religion.
    That which we call science did not spring from the christian religion, however. It sprang from antiquity. When you enter a house, illuminate it for a moment and then leave again, the house is not giving birth to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qlippoth View Post
    The success of science was born of the incubation of Greek thought in a Christian world. I'd qualify that as coming out. Sure, the principals of science may have been practiced in isolated situations. All great ideas manifest several times, it's where they take root is what counts.
    Science began to become successful again when people started to part from the christian religion and embrace the real world again. Science took root in Europe because it was born in Europe, not because christianity sullied it for a thousand years.

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