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  1. #11
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    I think from the outside, people will see these unhappy people's situations as simple, but from their inside perspective, there are so many hurdles, it is overwhelming. It's not a stubborn refusal to change so much as a hopeless resignation. The worst thing you can do is offer a series of suggestions. In such situations, most people offer trite advice that is just patronizing to the unhappy person; likely, they have already thought of such things. What they need is someone to build them up & comfort them, so they have the confidence in themselves to find their own solutions.

    I'd compare such a mental state to someone with a broken leg who wants to run a marathon. You could tell them they need to get up & start running if they ever want to be in shape, but that completely ignores the fact that their leg is broken and it's just plain going to take time & nurture to heal before they are strong enough to run again. It comes off as rather dense & insensitive to throw suggestions at them in the meantime. They probably know what they need to do anyway, so it's better to simply be supportive while they heal and encourage them when they do start to take some steps forward.

    I definitely see how it can be draining to be there for someone emotionally and never see them make effort to improve though. At some point, if they feel like an emotional leech, then maybe it's time to cut them off. It could be a wake-up call...maybe.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  2. #12
    Senior Member Abstract Thinker's Avatar
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    ^^ That

    and

    ^ That

    Well said, both of you.

    "Fear of greatness" and "hopeless resignation" both resonate with me.

  3. #13
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    Lemme guess. ISTJ? ISFJ?

    Actually, I feel like this to a large degree, but I just can't quit people, no matter how frustrated I can feel by them. Taking more meds might bandaid the problem, but it's really not her fault, or any of our faults, that our current mode of living is causing us cornucopias of grief. I'd be reticent to take meds too. I'd think the world needed to change, not me.

    I hate when people push their agendas on others though, like with the diet. Food nazis are horrible! :steam:
    Yes, ISFJ- great guess.
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

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  4. #14
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I think from the outside, people will see these unhappy people's situations as simple, but from their inside perspective, there are so many hurdles, it is overwhelming. It's not a stubborn refusal to change so much as a hopeless resignation. The worst thing you can do is offer a series of suggestions. In such situations, most people offer trite advice that is just patronizing to the unhappy person; likely, they have already thought of such things. What they need is someone to build them up & comfort them, so they have the confidence in themselves to find their own solutions.

    I'd compare such a mental state to someone with a broken leg who wants to run a marathon. You could tell them they need to get up & start running if they ever want to be in shape, but that completely ignores the fact that their leg is broken and it's just plain going to take time & nurture to heal before they are strong enough to run again. It comes off as rather dense & insensitive to throw suggestions at them in the meantime. They probably know what they need to do anyway, so it's better to simply be supportive while they heal and encourage them when they do start to take some steps forward.

    I definitely see how it can be draining to be there for someone emotionally and never see them make effort to improve though. At some point, if they feel like an emotional leech, then maybe it's time to cut them off. It could be a wake-up call...maybe.

    This, precisely- is what I do not understand.
    There is rarely an odd situation with these people. From my perspective, it's like someone who thinks they have a broken leg or wants to have a broken leg so that they don't need to run a marathon. In this situation, it looks like the worst thing to do is comfort them and support them, as they have been sitting in their comfort zone for so long. People crawl out of bad situations and ruts all the time. There is no obstacle in picking up an application or just doing the one simple thing that's going to make the change. To me it all looks so helpless and lazy from people who don't necessarily have sincerely helpless situations.

    In the case of my above friend, the first person who responded was, "I agree- it's terrible what working with the "public" will do to you." That's a comforting statement that won't get either of them anywhere. As if "working with the public" caused all of the problems to begin with. No ownership whatsoever.
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

    My Nohari
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    by sns.

  5. #15
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    From my perspective, it's like someone who thinks they have a broken leg or wants to have a broken leg so that they don't need to run a marathon. In this situation, it looks like the worst thing to do is comfort them and support them, as they have been sitting in their comfort zone for so long.
    Well that's the thing, you're interpreting it that way and thus fail to understand the situation they're in; so thus one could claim you're not making a true effort to understand their predicament and offer the best possible help.

    Yes people get out of trouble and ruts all the time, that doesn't mean they all get out the same way.

  6. #16
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Well that's the thing, you're interpreting it that way and thus fail to understand the situation they're in; so thus one could claim you're not making a true effort to understand their predicament and offer the best possible help.

    Yes people get out of trouble and ruts all the time, that doesn't mean they all get out the same way.
    And others never plan to get out at all. I'm clearly one of those "tough love" folks. But some people have "tough love" friends, supportive friends, supportive families, supportive situations, all sorts of things. Some people don't have as much help, but it won't matter. There is absolutely nothing pulling them out of their ruts. It's a set broken mentality for some people.
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

    My Nohari
    My Johari
    by sns.

  7. #17
    Sniffles
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    But "tough love" doesn't work with everybody. Now are you actually interested in trying to help this friend, or are you just ranting about how many people don't want to improve themselves?

  8. #18
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    But "tough love" doesn't work with everybody. Now are you actually interested in trying to help this friend, or are you just ranting about how many people don't want to improve themselves?
    Well both. What I'm saying though, is that gentle support will not work with her either. (I've done that side of the spectrum for her as well.) And she has supportive friends and family. I actually pretty much believe that there is a type of person who will not get out of this mindset no matter what happens to them. It seems to me that she/ they prefer it this way.

    I'm a little more interested in knowing how they come to this conclusion/what's going through their heads.

    (Right now I'm going to bed- can continue responding later!)
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

    My Nohari
    My Johari
    by sns.

  9. #19
    Sniffles
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    Could is be possible she wants to get out but is very confused as to how best do it?

  10. #20
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Could is be possible she wants to get out but is very confused as to how best do it?
    In her case, she's not dumb...
    And changing jobs is not rocket science.
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

    My Nohari
    My Johari
    by sns.

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