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Thread: ADHD is BS...

  1. #61
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by compulsiverambler View Post
    Within the USA, and the the UK as well, the people who drink alchohol at a young age are much more likely to have AD/HD, and the same is true of other drugs, so clearly you can't explain it away with law differences between countries when there are differences within countries as well.
    Cool, so people with ADHD are more likely to do stuff which is considered "socially unacceptable". I don't think we should give them amphetamines for this reason, they're more impulsive than the norm (by definition), thus they will try more activities. I can bet the first person who started a man-made fire was doing something extremely socially unacceptable.

    The fact is, teen tobacco smoking is as general trend, worse in developed countries that don't diagnose or treat AD/HD as frequently as others. Of course the trend goes up and down between different decades within countries, why wouldn't it?
    Ritalin use hasn't significantly gone up, while smoking has significantly gone down. At the very least, that means you can't connect smoking to lack of ritalin use, because we'd see a relationship between the two variables over a timespan of 20 years.

    I said that other things will affect it as well, of course. However, the fact that studies have followed children who are medicated for AD/HD and children who aren't, and found that the ones who aren't medicated are much more likely to smoke or worse, strongly suggests if not proves, that if you medicated more of the children, fewer of them would smoke and other things, whatever the baseline happens to be at that time and in that place.
    Sure, you medicate children and they become emotionless zombies, it's quite normal that they will be less likely to smoke. I think a good education is more important if you really want to prevent smoking; if they still want to smoke, well, we should accept that part of humanity likes to smoke. Giving medication because it leads to "appropriate" behavior is an Orwellian nightmare. Appropriate behavior is socially defined, working for more than 2 consecutive days is considered shameful in certain aborigenal communities, do you think they're to be diagnosed as ADHD? If a good percentage of people can't take the level of concetration required to function in this society, it means that we as a whole have failed, creating a community where there's an excessive focus on mindless work.

    Statistically, they are disproportionately made up of people with AD/HD, yes. As are the morbidly obese within the USA (50%).
    Obviously, if you're morbidly obese, your brain chemistry will be messed up. If I don't excercise for 2 weeks, I can feel that my ability to concentrate is lower; I can't even imagine how lower it'd be if I were morbidly obese.

    Are you going to ignore a fact just because you don't like it? Also people with schizophrenia, anxiety disorders, personality disorders and mood disorders are much more likely to be drug abusers, but many of the people diagnosed with these actually turn out to have had AD/HD all along when studied
    That means ADHD has an excessively broad definition, if a large percentage of the human population is characterized by a certain cerebral biochemistry, it's not a disease, it's variation.

    which was either misdiagnosed as something else, or lead to something else. Do you reject the evidence that drug abusers have a much higher incidence of most mental disorders before developing their habit, or just that they have a higher incidence AD/HD specifically?
    Well, there's no need to reject this evidence - drug abuse is obviously a way to self-medicate. I'm simply disputing the definition of ADHD: it's too broad, almost everyone I know could fit, except perhaps the most dutiful ISTJs. I'm not exaggerating. Every single person I know doesn't like to study for more than one hour straight (we end up doing it nonetheless, but we definitely don't like it); pauses often during work, falls asleep while studying something boring, can't work for 10 hours straight on homework, etc.

    For most elementary aged children, I think it's more about them being put into a completely unsuitable environment and being expected to function like adults without a hitch.
    Exactly. Our education is crap, I know too many smart people that are slightly hyperactive / don't like to sit down and read, thus ended up doing very poorly in high school, while a load of dumb people that are good at sitting down for hours and spitting back everything they have read a thousand times managed to get master's degrees.
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  2. #62
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by compulsiverambler View Post
    Being distractible won't make you think of anything clever. It'll stop you in your tracks. Trust me, I actually have this. Hyperfocus is just being able to concentrate better than you usually can, in specific circumstances (so no advantage there), combined with perseveration (being unable to stop doing something when it's in your best interests to do so).
    Rawr, yeu've been seriously mistaken on quite a few things in yeur posts, and I can only surmise that yeu have no clue whot yeu're talking about, and wikipedia is not being kind to yeu.

    Being distractable *WILL* help with thinking of clever stuff... the mind wanders BECAUSE it's seeing so many connections to related topics that it jumps all over the place where other people wouldn't even see a pattern. The downside, is that being distractable in this manner makes it far more likely that the clever stuff yeu think of will have precious little to do with the conversation or topic at hand.

    "I have no clue whot to do with our accounting problem, but I just realized that cinnamon and peanut butter toast would probably be rather tasty!"






    The quality of the concentration isn't actually any better than other people's during 'hyperfocus'; working memory, reaction times and processing speed are not magically improved when 'hyperfocusing' hence it rarely occurs during any task in which these are especially important, like strategy games, and hence you're typically still slower at the task than people without AD/HD who enjoy it just as much.
    Hyperfocusing is just fixating on a single thing far better; in strategy games, for example, being able to shift focus rapidly with yeur full attention spread out across many things at once, is far more advantageous. Of course hyperfocusing would fail in relation to AD/HD, as it discourages multitasking.




    I spent a long time on this post, partly because my brain didn't alert me to the possibility that other things might be more important, more creative or even more fun to be doing instead, or gift me with awareness that anything else exists at all, and also because writing out my thoughts in some kind of logical order and with decent paragraphing always takes me a long time, hyperfocusing or not.
    I don't see the problem. Why would there be an issue with posting at all? If it's a topic yeu're interested in, which yeu seem to be, though possibly making incorrect assumptions, then wouldn't it be worth doing? Fun is a relative statement; am I laughing out loud right now? No. But I'm enjoying myself. Could I be making a 3d model right now? Yes, but I'm enjoying the debate. Should I technically be cleaning the apartment since I have guests over tomorrow? Uhm... yeah. But I'm being lazy about it right now until after lunch. At least that's whot I'm claiming right now XD

    Just because there may be 'other' things to do, that may be 'technically' better uses of yeur time, it doesn't mean yeu should necessarily do such, or that whot yeu are currently doing is a waste. Yeur brain obviously DID alert yeu, since yeu mentioned all these things and kept going anyway, whereas I didn't even think of them until yeu mentioned it. And honestly, I don't care even now that yeu have mentioned it XD



    Impulsivity means that when something is a bad idea, your brain is unable to warn you quickly enough why it's a bad idea.
    Not really... it only takes a fraction of a second to be warned that something's a bad idea. Alot of the time yeu KNOW it's a bad idea, yeu either just don't care, or see a strong enough argument behind it to do so anyway. Or yeu just have an overwhelming urge to attempt such regardless, with no clear explanation, yeu just REALLY want to do such.

    Which, if yeu check most dictionary's definition of impulsiveness... is accurate. I've no clue where yeu got yeur description, because it doesn't coincide with anything I've ever heard or read to describe impulsiveness. Maybe it's just for impulsivity, because it's not a recognized english word? That's alright, making up yeur own words and giving them personal definitions is fine; I do it all the time! Though... it can be confusing when yeu make them sound similar to a real words and then give them conflicting definitions...


    It's not the same as spontaneity, which is doing and thinking unplanned things for pleasure. You can be spontaneous without being impulsive, and most Ps are in this category.
    Considering, when referring to human interactions, spontaneity is generally described as acting upon impulse, I don't exactly see where this point is going? As far as I can tell, yeu're trying to separate two things that essentially are the same thing, by making up yeur own definitions for them and claiming they're different :o

    Honestly, I'd like to go along with yeu on this. The english language is far in excess of redundancy, so many words being repeated in use with little to no reason for such, while still lacking nuances to describe such things. Generally, however, if yeu're dealing with an issue where there isn't a word to describe whot yeu want to say, yeu make a new one up, rather than trying to forcefit one that already exists into the gap, which just confuses people. Not that I am one to talk... I've done that before myself. Just saying is all =3

    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yfkg0VWx3rM"]'Hyperfocus'[/YOUTUBE]
    Yeah... I dunno, it makes no sense. Hyperfocus is like the opposite of ad/hd... I don't see how people could mix those up. One is the inability to focus due to changing topics so readily and easily, the other is being so focused yeu can't change topics even if yeu want to/should. Why would anyone confuse these two? XD

  3. #63
    Senior Member compulsiverambler's Avatar
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    Katsuni, every line of your post shows your astounding ignorance of this subject so don't throw insults at me, someone who actually experiences this first hand on a daily basis.

    The one thing I can be bothered to tell you right now is if you google around for studies into AD/HD impulsivity as related to the brain and cognitive tests of impulsivity, you'll see that the way the brain works is that when your mind, initially unconsciously generates an idea or impulse to do something, your body will naturally carry that out UNLESS certain parts of the brain (hint for Pubmed googling purposes: basal ganglia, anterior cingulate, frontal lobe) override that command by noticing, in a matter of milliseconds, that it is or could be a bad idea or that there might be better options.

    For most people, these 'stop, what are you doing/about to do and what are the consequences likely to be' circuits kick in so quickly that you're not aware of it, you just hold off that action automatically until you've had time to become consciously aware of the impulse and to evaluate it.

    Have you never found yourself saying something, and only knowing what it is you've said or that you're speaking at all, immediately after the last word is out of your mouth, only at the exact same time everyone else is aware of what you've said by hearing it? As if your mind and mouth were on auto-pilot? You'd be an unusual person if you'd never once experienced this, but it's something people with AD/HD experience on a very regular basis because all of these regions of the brain are both smaller and poorer at metabolising the glucose and oxygen they need to function, so we frequently do and say things as immediate reactions either without being aware of doing it at all until afterwards, or being aware of nothing but the present moment with its urges and satisfaction of those urges as opposed to even very short-term future results, which we only become aware of seconds or milliseconds too late.

    For most adults, this is especially devastating during arguments, in which you're suddenly aware that the satisfyingly angry thing you've said also happens to be likely to give the person you were angry with feelings whose breadth, quality, strength and longevity you weren't thinking about in the moment and will not be easy to rectify.

  4. #64
    Senior Member You's Avatar
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    I've never taken the test for it. I probably have it. But!
    I'll never take any of that crap.
    Why?

    Because...it's crap.

  5. #65
    Senior Member compulsiverambler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Cool, so people with ADHD are more likely to do stuff which is considered "socially unacceptable". I don't think we should give them amphetamines for this reason, they're more impulsive than the norm (by definition), thus they will try more activities. I can bet the first person who started a man-made fire was doing something extremely socially unacceptable.
    Actually, a study has found that the degree of inattentiveness is the strongest predictor of whether someone will abuse drugs, not the degree of impulsivity.

    Ritalin use hasn't significantly gone up, while smoking has significantly gone down. At the very least, that means you can't connect smoking to lack of ritalin use, because we'd see a relationship between the two variables over a timespan of 20 years.
    Ritalin use has most definitely gone up in North America and Australia over the last decades. In Australia, it is or was recently at about 6% of school children. Smoking has gone down in some countries more than others, in some it's actually gone up, for a variety of reasons. The fact that people with AD/HD are no longer more likely to smoke than their peers if medicated consistently as children, proves that more AD/HD medication would lower the rate of smoking in the long-term. Why won't you address that point about children with AD/HD only being more likely to smoke if not medicated? That's the reason I've come to this conclusion (about countries that systematically deprive children of the medicine they need, inflating their rate of tobacco smoking from whatever it would be otherwise to something higher).

    Sure, you medicate children and they become emotionless zombies, it's quite normal that they will be less likely to smoke. I think a good education is more important if you really want to prevent smoking; if they still want to smoke, well, we should accept that part of humanity likes to smoke. Giving medication because it leads to "appropriate" behavior is an Orwellian nightmare. Appropriate behavior is socially defined, working for more than 2 consecutive days is considered shameful in certain aborigenal communities, do you think they're to be diagnosed as ADHD? If a good percentage of people can't take the level of concetration required to function in this society, it means that we as a whole have failed, creating a community where there's an excessive focus on mindless work.
    I am not an emotionless zombie on Ritalin. If I were, I would alter my dose or try a different drug, then problem solved, simple.

    By your logic, children who have treatable causes of dwarfism shouldn't be given medical treatment to allow them to grow normally because society is designed for taller people and that's society's fault. OK, maybe it is society's fault, what are you going to do, deny them medical treatment that would enable them to live a better life, to be able to drive and be capable of more kinds of work, as punishment for SOCIETY'S mistake? Why? If it's society's fault for not catering for disabled people well enough that they're functionally unaffected by their differences, why should that same society punish those who have a disabling difference by denying them treatment that would allow them to function better?

    Obviously, if you're morbidly obese, your brain chemistry will be messed up. If I don't excercise for 2 weeks, I can feel that my ability to concentrate is lower; I can't even imagine how lower it'd be if I were morbidly obese.
    AD/HD is diagnosed when symptoms have been present consistently since childhood. If you only developed AD/HD symptoms for the first time after years of an unhealthy lifestyle, you wouldn't be diagnosed with AD/HD. Those 50% have always had AD/HD.

    That means ADHD has an excessively broad definition, if a large percentage of the human population is characterized by a certain cerebral biochemistry, it's not a disease, it's variation.
    So we shouldn't treat eczema or asthma I suppose? These affect 1 in 5 children now, many more than AD/HD does. Let them all die of asthma attacks without drugs for it because it's 'just' variation? What about short-sightedness? Should everyone with that (over half the adult population) be allowed to drive without glasses or contact lenses and crash and die because it's 'just' variation? Some variation is good, some neutral, some disastrously bad when not dealt with, however common. That's the nature of evolution, and unfortunately because all of these above mentioned conditions are not killing people as they used to, and possibly because of our changing chemical environment, their incidence is increasing. Doesn't mean they've stopped sucking.

  6. #66
    Senior Member compulsiverambler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Well, there's no need to reject this evidence - drug abuse is obviously a way to self-medicate. I'm simply disputing the definition of ADHD: it's too broad, almost everyone I know could fit, except perhaps the most dutiful ISTJs. I'm not exaggerating. Every single person I know doesn't like to study for more than one hour straight (we end up doing it nonetheless, but we definitely don't like it); pauses often during work, falls asleep while studying something boring, can't work for 10 hours straight on homework, etc.
    Those 'symptoms' are not the criteria for, nor the defintion of AD/HD. AD/HD is currently diagnosed most frequently with the following criteria, which I promise you, 'almost everyone you know' will NOT meet, unless you happen to live in an area in which almost everyone was born prematurely, had lead poisoning, been exposed to cigarette smoke or alcohol in the womb, had head injuries or meningitis as children, etc.

    From the DSM-IV-TR:

    When problems with attention, hyperactivity, and impulsiveness develop in childhood and persist, in some cases into adulthood, this mental disorder may be diagnosed.

    Diagnostic criteria for Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder

    A. Either (1) or (2):
    (1) inattention: six (or more) of the following symptoms of inattention have persisted for at least 6 months to a degree that is maladaptive and inconsistent with developmental level:
    (a) often fails to give close attention to details or makes careless mistakes in schoolwork, work, or other activities
    (b) often has difficulty sustaining attention in tasks or play activities
    (c) often does not seem to listen when spoken to directly
    (d) often does not follow through on instructions and fails to finish school work, chores, or duties in the workplace (not due to oppositional behavior or failure to understand instructions)
    (e) often has difficulty organizing tasks and activities
    (f) often avoids, dislikes, or is reluctant to engage in tasks that require sustained mental effort (such as schoolwork or homework)
    (g) often loses things necessary for tasks or activities (e.g., toys, school assignments, pencils, books, or tools)
    (h) is often easily distracted by extraneous stimuli
    (i) is often forgetful in daily activities

    (2) hyperactivity-impulsivity: six (or more) of the following symptoms of hyperactivity-impulsivity have persisted for at least 6 months to a degree that is maladaptive and inconsistent with developmental level:


    Hyperactivity
    (a) often fidgets with hands or feet or squirms in seat
    (b) often leaves seat in classroom or in other situations in which remaining seated is expected
    (c) often runs about or climbs excessively in situations in which it is inappropriate (in adolescents or adults, may be limited to subjective feelings of restlessness)
    (d) often has difficulty playing or engaging in leisure activities quietly
    (e) is often "on the go" or often acts as if "driven by a motor"
    (f) often talks excessively


    Impulsivity
    (g) often blurts out answers before questions have been completed
    (h) often has difficulty awaiting turn
    (i) often interrupts or intrudes on others (e.g., butts into conversations or games)

    B. Some hyperactive-impulsive or inattentive symptoms that caused impairment were present before age 7 years.

    C. Some impairment from the symptoms is present in two or more settings (e.g., at school [or work] and at home).

    D. There must be clear evidence of clinically significant impairment in social, academic, or occupational functioning.

    E. The symptoms do not occur exclusively during the course of a Pervasive Developmental Disorder, Schizophrenia, or other Psychotic Disorder and are not better accounted for by another mental disorder (e.g., Mood Disorder, Anxiety Disorder, Dissociative Disorders, or a Personality Disorder).

    Code based on type:

    314.01 Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder, Combined Type: if both Criteria A1 and A2 are met for the past 6 months
    314.00 Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder, Predominantly Inattentive Type: if Criterion A1 is met but Criterion A2 is not met for the past 6 months
    314.01 Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder, Predominantly Hyperactive-Impulsive Type: if Criterion A2 is met but Criterion A1 is not met for the past 6 months
    Coding note: For individuals (especially adolescents and adults) who currently have symptoms that no longer meet full criteria, "In Partial Remission" should be specified.


    A lot of people flippantly claim they have AD/HD for the same reasons a lot of people flippantly claim they have OCD. They have absolutely no idea of the diagnostic criteria, especially the parts about being 'clinically impaired or distressed', how consistently, and for how long.

    By the way, what kind of freak can do homework for 10 hours straight?! LOL, if anyone who couldn't do that met the criteria then I would agree with you, the criteria are too broad! Without my medication, I was lucky to read more than 2 sentences of a textbook without my mind going off on a tangent about it or just jumping to unrelated thoughts completely at random, or getting distracted by sensory input from the environment, then forgetting what they said immediately and having to read them several more times to make the words come together meaningfully in my mind and to hold their meaning in mind long enough to understand their connection to the next sentence. And this is textbooks and information I was very interested in, much more interested in than my neurotypical classmates who managed to read them many times more quickly than I could despite their disinterest and often lower reading ability.

  7. #67
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    I had a terrible time in school for years. Got pretty bad grades for not turning stuff in, etc. Did great on tests, though. I lose stuff all the time. I forget to pay bills and the water/internet, etc get turned off even though I have the money in the bank. I didn't have a checking account for years because of having an account closed due to overdrafts that I couldn't afford to pay off. I have to set all kinds of alarms on my cell to make sure I get the kids to the school bus stop on time and am on time to pick them up. Can't remember to return videos, so have paid God only knows how much in late fees. Can't use the public library because I owe them over $300 for books and cassettes I forgot to return, then lost. I make the kids set their clothes for school out the night before, that way, if they don't have clean clothes, I will have time to wash something for them. Always forgetting what I walked to the next room for.

    I'm really not stupid, but I feel like I was born senile.

    I've learned to try to set things up the best way I can to keep from doing stupid stuff. It isn't perfect, but I more or less get by.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

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    I'm really not stupid, but I feel like I was born senile.
    Love this! I am actually pretty freakin' smart, but before I was diagnosed and treated, at least once I day I would say outloud, either to myself or others, "God, I SUCK at life." Because that's what it feels like. You know the potential is there, but you can't access it.

    compulsiverambler, I think I may be in love with your posts, because they are awesome. One thing I would add to your reply to FDG is that the symptoms and characteristics must be severe enough to cause significant problems in 2 or more areas of your life. So, while everyone is occasionally forgetful or distracted, it wouldn't be diagnosed as ADHD unless it is causing severing impairment in your ability to function.

    ETA: Never mind, you did include that. I, naturally, skimmed over and missed it.

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    I had a psychiatric assessment again today that concluded that I have AD/HD and will be confirmed by my reaction to medication. I haven't had it yet, but I'm fairly certain there will be no surprises as I've consumed excessive amounts of caffeine as a child and growing up and know that it helps me relax a little.

    I didn't want to jump to conclusions. Actually, I've found a great challenge in every day of my life which I never thought of as terribly abnormal since it's all I ever knew. Up until now I always felt an usual type of challenge that I could never place but I wanted to overcome it on my own. Only now at 23 was I open to getting checked for a problem.

    Because it was never diagnosed, I developed a huge amount of cognitive coping mechanisms and so reading some opinions on AD/HD I find there is some serious misunderstanding about it.

    First off, AD/HD is a cognitive disorder, not a disease. It's a malfunction of the brain which disables a person's ability to subconsciously filter out unimportant information, anything from external stimulation or the internal conscious thought patterns. So while a normal person can fairly easily learn to control their focus, the AD/HD person experiences their focus being pulled in every direction and is not able to prevent it. While a normal person can behave in respect to healthy inhibitions, the AD/HD person is presented all sorts of ideas that effect behavior and decisions and so inevitably ignores social norms, acts impulsively, or even responds to every idea leading to hyperactivity.

    For people who have occasional or even recurrent inability to complete a task or focus, this is not necessarily AD/HD. This is possibly the biggest misunderstanding about AD/HD--it is not a mood or behavior problem, it is a cognitive malfunction (brain hardwiring) which unavoidably effects behavior. kids who perform poorly in school, misbehave, or really exhibit any of the symptoms do not necessarily have AD/HD. the ones who dont need to be disciplined, the ones who do need medical treatment. Real AD/HD sufferers experience the symptoms perpetually 24/7 and they are not able to control it or stop it.

    Behaviorally, this can have a number of effects, but I can only speak for myself. For me, it caused an extreme dislike of anything that involved unmanageable amounts of stimulation. Things like commercials on TV or the radio can actually make me really mad because they often repeat things. I never know if I'm really an introvert or just an extrovert who can't process any more than 1 person talking. I know other people would say the same things, but I assure you there is a real, distinctive difference between the typical low human attention span and the need to give deliberate, active effort to keeping something in your head for more than half a second because it's being bombarded by 20 more things the next second.

    There is also a difference between ambition and an inability to get the brain to rest. In my case, I never had school or work performance issues, in fact I did very well. But I am stuck in high-drive mode 24/7. Eventually, I will crash from sheer mental exhausting and become unresponsive for a while. I would compare AD/HD to driving a car with a gas pedal that sticks and no breaks. After crashing into enough things you are left with the choice of either keep making an unmanageable amount of mistakes (hyperactivity, impulsiveness) or pulling the e-brake making your car useless (attention deficit). The way I coped was approaching everything with a shotgun approach that I was eventually able to mature into what you could call "principle driven chaos" that minimized mistakes, and then isolating myself whenever necessary to activities where I could limit the amount of stimulation I was receiving.



    I'm not sure how I feel about the over-diagnosis. I'm a bit irked because my first primary care doctor didn't "buy" that I had AD/HD due to not fitting the stereotype (I was able to perform well in school/work despite the extreme toll it took in stress levels). IMO this is the problem with psychiatry is diagnoses by a condition's profile rather than understanding the malfunction itself so that diagnosis is either true/false. Also, I don't appreciate people saying that those with AD/HD should just "learn to get over it". I developed a lot of coping mechanisms but I still look forward to treatment because honestly battling an every day challenge that borders on feeling insane gets really old. That's why it's called a disorder, those who have it are not able to turn it off or make it go away. Maybe you should walk around for a few months with random images and sounds flashing around you 24/7 and see how well you cope, let alone function.

    there are also a lot of other bs I have to deal with that isnt part of the disorder, like people calling me impatient when I've been quietly trying to rewire my brain so it doesn't overrespond since I was a little kid. Try working through a problem for a decade without giving up and we'll see who's more patient and hopeful. and to people asking about whether treatment options are worth the loss in "creativity", I would seriously question whether someone who chooses not to get treatment really had the disorder in the first place, because that's a no brainer for anyone who deals with this challenge 24/7. if you dont have it, then you dont know how much it challenges you in just about every way... you wouldnt scrutinize someone who's missing a leg for not being able to get around, would you?

    /jaded

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    i was diagnosed add back a while ago (or ad/hd inattentive subtype i guess) in high school, did all the psychological tests and whatnot. failed miserably on the connors test, lol. i went on lots o drugs. tried ritalin, lots of energy and little brain function. tried concerta, it made me feel loopy. adderall was excellent -- i could write three papers, clean the house, and run all my errands all before dinnertime. but it had drawbacks too, and eventually i decided they weren't worth it for me personally.

    what i have to say about all this is, almost all psychological/psychiatric disorders are based on a sliding scale. the tipping point typically used is that at which your symptoms interfere with your ability to live the kind of life you'd like to live on a day-to-day basis. everyone is "a little adhd" because we all have the brain functions and chemicals which can lead to it. but most of us have them in standard ways... it's like a bell curve. most of us are within the bell. those who aren't can be diagnosed.

    why there are more cases nowadays is in part because the tipping points are being narrowed at an earlier age. kids -- especially boys -- are expected to endure long periods of sitting and paying attention in elementary school, and it's just not realistic.

    IMO this is the problem with psychiatry is diagnoses by a condition's profile rather than understanding the malfunction itself so that diagnosis is either true/false.
    psychiatric diagnosis is almost never true/false. it's shades of gray.

    the problem is that with most disorders, the malfunction is not understood, or it's something like i was describing earlier - on a sliding scale. if it's a sliding scale, there's no answer to this. someone has to make a cutoff somewhere otherwise we either should all be getting treatment or none of us should. on the other hand, would you rather them hold out on fully understanding before they're willing to treat you? bipolar, for instance, is still very much not clear. but if i had such a condition, personally, i would much rather have my symptoms treated in an attempt to help me live a more normal life than to have to wait.

    no offense to you -- perhaps you are a psychiatry student yourself, i'm not trying to assume -- but a lot of people really don't understand psychiatry or diagnosis. i'm not saying that all psychiatrists are perfect, but they do go through a hell of a lot of school to do what they do. and conditions themselves are lines drawn by humans. there are many things that overlap, many that are comorbid, some that are mutually exclusive. diagnosis is as much an art as a science.

    Quote Originally Posted by cafe
    I'm really not stupid, but I feel like I was born senile.
    LOL
    tell me about it
    in fact, i'm rather intelligent, but you'd never know by the amount of ID cards i've lost

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