But then why do ADHD patients make such good entertainers? I see a big difference between the older generations of entertainers and the younger ones. In the older generations, there are many people with ADHD, and they're fun! But when you look at the younger generations, you see they're totally plain. Same with fashion: before Ritalin was invented, people started making up new fashion items and styles, but since that drug was invented, people got so uncreative they had to reuse all the things that were made up in the past. I personally have ADD and I don't take any drugs to calm my mind down, and in the mean time I'm the most awesome person I know! Ritalin was invented to stop people from making up new things and to make them behave like everyone else so everyone will be the same and the world will turn boring. So, that's how I think about it.
Had only read through half the posts or so when writing that message; the other half done now ^^
Thanks for the video, especially since it was SHORT XD
Also I hadn't really kept up to date on information on such; I'm still thinking of how it was described about 20 years ago with add/adhd being separate. Apparently it's not listed that way anymore. Oh well =3
I would say, however, that I'm of the mental hyperactivity far moreso than the physical, though the physical does still show itself from time to time. It wouldn't be rare for me to just randomly get up and wander out of a room and not realize I'd done so... uncommon, but not rare. It does happen, just not frequently. Usually it seems to occur along the lines of thinking of something to do, and just unconsciously going ALRIGHT LETS GO DO THAT! and getting up and headed off in that direction, then reaching it and being... wth why am I here?
Anyways, still say it's real, though I'm not sure if my personal experiences are considered normal for those who have such or not. Maybe I gots misdiagnosed because the end result is the same? I dunno much about it in other people, just know how I've had to deal with things my whole life is all =3
It doesn't matter if they're right. If they can't proove they're right, then they're wrong. No matter how right they may be.
I dont think people with ADHD have a disease. They are just people with a certain personality type. What are your thoughts on this?
Yeah, just rationalize them as the ESPs, the schizoids as ITP personality type, the schizotypals as the INJ , the histrionic as EFJ and so forth. That's the wonder of folk typology isn't it, comprehensiveness of explanation is one of the system's true charms.
Last edited by SolitaryWalker; 07-12-2010 at 02:02 PM.
"Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain
“No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson
I'm struggling here as I read through this thread. There are some seriously conflicting opinions going on in my head.
Within the last year or so, it has been mentioned by a few people (jokingly) that I have ADHD. Personally (without ever having researched it) my opinion was 'This doesn't sound like a PROBLEM. I do it all the time...' I felt (rather defensively) that people who think like that were actually extremely SMART, and just because they don't adhere to what society thinks they should act like or even THINK like is ridiculous. Who has the right to say that something as personal and individualized as your THOUGHTS are WRONG!?
A theory of mine (and I'm sure I'm not the first) is that as our world has become overly stimulated, some people have responded in kind with this multi-tasking thought process. All in all, I thought the idea was BS.
HOWEVER. As I've read through this thread and other things I've begun reading about on this, I've found myself nodding at the descriptions and statistics and wondering. I've always been this way, but I have worked things into my life to help me remember things when I really need to. Things that, until now, I didn't really realize that others don't have to do. I set alarms on my phone to remember that its time to take out the trash to the street, and to remind me to go home at the end of the day from work. I write things down CONSTANTLY on post-it notes and anywhere that I think I'll find them when I need them most. It takes me HOURS to fall asleep at night. I joke with my friends that I've 'idiot-proofed' my world. Is it the INTJ in me that helped 'organize' myself enough to make this crazy head of mine manageable? I leave bills sit on my desk, I look at them EVERY DAY and think 'crap... I have to send those out' and then immediately forget. I haven't changed the oil in my car in about... a year and a half because I'm always 'remembering' that I have to do it when I'm actually IN the car, and nowhere else where I could actually plan for it.
I've always joked that I'm 'forgetful' and have been called 'the most absent-minded intelligent person' people have ever met. I don't truly FORGET things, they're always there... but I can't recall them when I NEED them, they just come and go at will. I pick up with trains of thought that I had going on HOURS ago seemlessly... and whichever thing I was thinking about when the switch happens comes back to me eventually.
Katsuni, I am like you when you say that there are 'layers' of thoughts going on. There is always, at any given time, seemingly 6 different streams of consciousness going on in my head. I'll be 30 this year, and I'm starting to wonder if I'm one of those 'undiagnosed' people.
This, coming from a person who, up until recently, doubted that it even existed and didn't find anything wrong with the way I do things. Its normal for me, and I've always figured everyone was like this.
In countries like yours they self-medicate with tobacco instead. France is having a similar problem with people smoking from a young age.
In the USA it's been found that the people who start smoking (and/or drinking alcohol, caffeine and using illegal drugs) the youngest are more often the ones with AD/HD, because these drugs have some similar cognitive effects and sometimes even similar chemical structures to Ritalin at certain dosages, so they calm them down and help them focus. Unfortunately because the dosages of these aren't controlled, unlike Ritalin, people then keep increasing their dose and become addicted.
In countries where AD/HD goes untreated the most often, as well as obviously the ones with the easiest availability and least stigma attached to these things, you can expect to see the highest rates of people starting them early, which is indeed what we see in Europe when contrasted with North America and Australia, where AD/HD is much more often treated with medication.
When you follow up the ones given medication consistently throughout childhood, they are no more likely to start smoking, drinking or taking illegal drugs than their peers without AD/HD. A massive difference.
One of the reasons AD/HD usually seems to onlookers to get better with age is that teenagers start to find ways to self-medicate, most commonly with excessive amounts of caffeine, but also in even less healthy ways as mentioned above (for example 80% of adults with AD/HD smoke cigarettes, a much higher rate than in those without AD/HD).
In countries like yours they self-medicate with tobacco instead. France is having a similar problem with people smoking from a young age.
In the USA it's been found that the people who start smoking (and/or drinking alcohol, caffeine and using illegal drugs) the youngest are more often the ones with AD/HD, because these drugs are similar to Ritalin in some ways so they calm them down and help them focus. In countries where AD/HD goes untreated the most often, as well as obviously the ones with the easiest availability and least stigma attached to these things, you can expect to see the highest rates of people starting them early, which is indeed what we see in Europe when contrasted with North America and Australia.
Fail, tobacco smoking among young people is decreasing steadily since the early 90s. Alcohol is subject to strong age limitations in the US, that's why consumption starts much later. You're totally fixated with ADHD, if it were for you probably 90 percent of the population would be ADDers. Probably you might go as far as saying that most alcoholics, chain-smokers, amphetamine-abusers are simply untreated ADD-people. I suggest to send your curriculum to Novartis, they might hire you as an advertiser.
By the way, I personally wouldn't mind taking some amphetamines to increase my performance during exams and /or work more. Even one of the best mathematicians of our centuri, Erdos, used amphetamines because he wanted to be more productive. Yet I think it should be made clear that it's just a way to increase our natural level of attention - we aren't robots.
Distractability, which by its nature has an opposite of extreme hyperfocus in many, impulsivity, and willingness to challenge existing thought and processes, seem to be the basis for most truly innovative thought and invention. Granted it takes many a lifetime (and some never) to be able to harness it, but without it we would not have the likes of Steve Jobs, Einstein, Richard Branston.
Being distractible won't make you think of anything clever. It'll stop you in your tracks. Trust me, I actually have this. Hyperfocus is just being able to concentrate better than you usually can, in specific circumstances (so no advantage there), combined with perseveration (being unable to stop doing something when it's in your best interests to do so).
The quality of the concentration isn't actually any better than other people's during 'hyperfocus'; working memory, reaction times and processing speed are not magically improved when 'hyperfocusing' hence it rarely occurs during any task in which these are especially important, like strategy games, and hence you're typically still slower at the task than people without AD/HD who enjoy it just as much.
I spent a long time on this post, partly because my brain didn't alert me to the possibility that other things might be more important, more creative or even more fun to be doing instead, or gift me with awareness that anything else exists at all, and also because writing out my thoughts in some kind of logical order and with decent paragraphing always takes me a long time, hyperfocusing or not. There is merely some improvement on your usual productivity rate with respect to the activity you're 'stuck on', because your awareness remains broadly on it, though it can still shift too frequently between different details of it.
Impulsivity means that when something is a bad idea, your brain is unable to warn you quickly enough why it's a bad idea. It's not the same as spontaneity, which is doing and thinking unplanned things for pleasure. You can be spontaneous without being impulsive, and most Ps are in this category.
I consider ADHD a normal neurological variation that is maladaptive to our current way of life, rather than a disease. Like anything else, if the traits are exhibited in the extreme, then it is a disorder.
The variation is especially maladaptive to the way most schools in the US teach elementary aged children.
My sons and I both exhibit the characteristics of ADHD inattentive type (I think that's what they're still calling it). I tried taking Strattera for it and it was horrible. I felt so bad that I hardly noticed being inattentive.
When I took my older son to be tested for it, we thought he had the hyperactive kind because he's kind of loud and talkative, but he's just a loud, talkative person with inattentive ADHD. Luckily, they also noticed signs of Pervasive Development Disorder, so I was able to get an Autism Spectrum Disorder diagnosis from the school for both sons. When I say luckily, it is because the schools don't consider ADHD a real disability and often won't make any kind of accommodations for an ADHD child, but rather pressure parents to medicate. They have to and are more willing to accommodate an ASD child, so my sons got the accommodations they needed without my having to put them on speed.
That worked until my younger son had to change schools at the beginning of fourth grade. It was a big change that involved nearly doubling the size of class he was in and it was overwhelming. The speech therapist saw him struggling and really pressured me to medicate him. I took him to the doctor and got the prescription, but I never could bring myself to make him take the stuff. The speech therapist was very unhappy about this and I think she would have threatened me with neglect of some kind if she thought I'd fall for it. That would have gotten ugly.
Fortunately, within a couple of months, he adjusted and began doing pretty well. He's always going to be a bit absent-minded and have to work a little harder at organization that 'normal' kids, but he is smarter than most of them, so it evens out.
I'm really glad I didn't put the poor kid on speed. We are relatively mild cases, so we can just make allowances for our inattentiveness and function nearly-normally. In folks with extreme cases, medication is a life saver and if it helps them to function normally when they ordinarily couldn't, then medication is a very good thing.
For most elementary aged children, I think it's more about them being put into a completely unsuitable environment and being expected to function like adults without a hitch.
“There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.” ~ John Rogers
Fail, tobacco smoking among young people is decreasing steadily since the early 90s. Alcohol is subject to strong age limitations in the US, that's why consumption starts much later.
Within the USA, and the the UK as well, the people who drink alchohol at a young age are much more likely to have AD/HD, and the same is true of other drugs, so clearly you can't explain it away with law differences between countries when there are differences within countries as well.
The fact is, teen tobacco smoking is as general trend, worse in developed countries that don't diagnose or treat AD/HD as frequently as others. Of course the trend goes up and down between different decades within countries, why wouldn't it? I said that other things will affect it as well, of course. However, the fact that studies have followed children who are medicated for AD/HD and children who aren't, and found that the ones who aren't medicated are much more likely to smoke or worse, strongly suggests if not proves, that if you medicated more of the children, fewer of them would smoke and other things, whatever the baseline happens to be at that time and in that place.
Probably you might go as far as saying that most alcoholics, chain-smokers, amphetamine-abusers are simply untreated ADD-people. I suggest to send your curriculum to Novartis, they might hire you as an advertiser.
Statistically, they are disproportionately made up of people with AD/HD, yes. As are the morbidly obese within the USA (50%). Are you going to ignore a fact just because you don't like it? Also people with schizophrenia, anxiety disorders, personality disorders and mood disorders are much more likely to be drug abusers, but many of the people diagnosed with these actually turn out to have had AD/HD all along when studied, which was either misdiagnosed as something else, or lead to something else. Do you reject the evidence that drug abusers have a much higher incidence of most mental disorders before developing their habit, or just that they have a higher incidence AD/HD specifically?