The Mental Disorder, or The Functions.

[ReflecTcelfeR]

I'm in a talkative mood right now. I was wondering whether a mental disorder would alter a function and change it, or if it was the thinking process that creates the disorder and those specific functions are more prone to certain disorders (schizophrenia and such)? In simple terms: does the disorder cause the change in thinking, or are certain thinking processes prone to cause mental disorders?

 

[INTP]

I think certain types get different mental disorders easier. And for example schizophrenia might come a little different on different types, like st types might see hallucinations more than nf types who might get it more like i feel like something is wrong and has to act in a weird way based on feelings/intuition that they get and that is false from reality.

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

I don't quite follow. The st would be more likely to believe the hallucinations? Where as the nf would categorize them as an intuitive feeling?

 

[INTP]

I don't quite follow. The st would be more likely to believe the hallucinations? Where as the nf would categorize them as an intuitive feeling?

This is just my theory. But i believe that sensors would more easily see hallucinations(sensoring function being fucked up) and intuitives would get a intuition that something is wrong(intuition function being fucked up). Both would act based on these false perceptions about the external world. But other thing about schizophrenia is that it kinda makes everything a big mess in your head. Schizophrenia is basically that your brains wont stop an unconscious thinking process when it normally should, and this might fool your brains differently based on your type.

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

So it would manifest itself differently based on the function, but the function itself did not cause the disorder. It makes sense. The disorder would then have to be caused through something else then the thinking. I would say that it'd be chemically based then. This is obvious though, I feel like something else is lingering here. I'm also trying to figure out what composes a thought. I'm thinking this may be a way of finding the answer.

 

[INTP]

So it would manifest itself differently based on the function, but the function itself did not cause the disorder. It makes sense. The disorder would then have to be caused through something else then the thinking. I would say that it'd be chemically based then. This is obvious though, I feel like something else is lingering here. I'm also trying to figure out what composes a thought. I'm thinking this may be a way of finding the answer.

I dont think you will find a answer to what composes a thought looking at mental disorders, but you can see how different parts of brains effect the thinking process. Also since depression for example is a malfunction of (what ever its called) that produces dopamine, serotonin etc, you cant really see how depression effects the thinking process, but you can see how those chemicals effect persons mood and what kind of thoughts he forms.

There are speculations that schizophrenia is caused by having too low amount of these chemicals that destroy dmt(Dimethyltryptamine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) before it effects too much on the normal thinking. Dmt like other psychedelic drugs cause schizophrenia like thinking by making these "stoppers" (that normally stop unconscious thinking process before thoughts go beyond sane thinking) not to work or atleast letting the thought kinda go bit too far. Also psychedelics cause unconscious come more conscious, but the unconscious can be so abstract way of thinking to conscious that you cant really make sense of it much, i believe that in mbti terms they kinda spread the energy between functions in more balanced way instead of just aiming the energy to strongest functions(i can clearly see this happening when i smoke alot of weed and situation causes me to use my lower functions, my Se can suddenly work far better than normal for a split second and i can use my Fi without using so much energy when im stoned). This kind of too far away thinking(let it be in a healthy person using psychedelic drugs or mentally ill having too high dosage of dmt) can manifest in person coming more artistic or seeing things in a new way than they used to.

 

[InsatiableCuriosity]

There is an interesting paper in PDF form here on psychiatric research into relationship between type/temperament and mental illness among psychiatric patients done in 1983 - "Temperament and Psychiatric Illness"
Cynthia C. Bisbee, Ph.D.1, Robert W. Mullaly, Ph.D.2
and Humphry Osmond, MRCP, FRCPsych3

http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&s...CE-IkO&usg=AFQjCNGSo9DCl4GMWjyqsWKZdMQCc85mMg

There is also a table I recall (but cannot now locate) detailing the likely mental disorders of people whose functions are dys-functional for each of the temperaments.

 

[tinkerbell]

yes is the answer.... all of the above.

Mental disorders can b a bt of both, they are extremes of normality, there is one school of thinking is that the lableing of people as having mental disorder is just socieity rejecting strange beahviour. There are 5 rules of thoughts:
Medical model - basically its an illenss
Moral beahviour - possition etc
Psycoalantical model - patient can change
Socil model - symptom of a sick society
Conspirtal model - government lableing

schizophrenia and other psycotic conditions are often realted to having been raised in emotional volitile environments which basically end up swamping the person. But there is multiple types of schizophrenia.

As for paranoiya etc, I think you can talk yourself into being sick as with a fair few of the so called personality dissorders.

I did a realatively breif placement in a psyciatric hospital for about 6 weeks, it had a fair few people in it who were basically just a bit board of their life to the poitn they cut up or put their fist through windows - the group then would have a pissing up the wall ontest about who did it premediatedly v's spontaneously... Miraculous recovrey happened if they met someone they wanted to have a relationship, suddenly they didn't want to be in hospital.

 

[InsatiableCuriosity]

yes is the answer.... all of the above.

Mental disorders can b a bt of both, they are extremes of normality, there is one school of thinking is that the lableing of people as having mental disorder is just socieity rejecting strange beahviour.

schizophrenia and other psycotic conditions are often realted to having been raised in emotional volitile environments which basically end up swamping the person. But there is multiple types of schizophrenia.

As for paranoiya etc, I think you can talk yourself into being sick as with a fair few of the so called personality dissorders.

I did a realatively breif placement in a psyciatric hospital for about 6 weeks, it had a fair few people in it who were basically just a bit board of their life to the poitn they cut up or put their fist through windows - the group then would have a pissing up the wall ontest about who did it premediatedly v's spontaneously... Miraculous recovrey happened if they met someone they wanted to have a relationship, suddenly they didn't want to be in hospital.

I think perhaps that this is a very simplistic observation of very complex problems. There are of course many people with personality disorder who seek attention and respite BUT mental illness is a serious problem - just ask families who are affected by schizophrenia, bipolar disorder or the "Black Dog" of depression.

I trained as a mental health nurse when I left school for 3 of the 4 years required to qualify and I can tell you mental illness is a lot for complex than this description.

 

[tinkerbell]

I think perhaps that this is a very simplistic observation of very complex problems. There are of course many people with personality disorder who seek attention and respite BUT mental illness is a serious problem - just ask families who are affected by schizophrenia, bipolar disorder or the "Black Dog" of depression.

I trained as a mental health nurse when I left school for 3 of the 4 years required to qualify and I an tell you mental illness is a lot for complex than this description.

Yes indeed it is a simplification and I was just using it to illustrate the different perspectives. I've re-edited the above post with the 5 views (from the possition through the conspiacy) although don't give a hole lot of detail of each. I needed to look them up.

There had been an experiment where a bunch of people tried to be admitted to mental hospitals citing the "I hear voices as their only symptom", 80% were admitted, none of them were genuinely sick, some had real difficulty being discharged.

My personal view point sits with it's an illness that can be treated, but I do also beleive that a small proportion are just people trying to excape their personal responsibility.

I'm a qualified Mental Handicapped nurse of 13 years experince, although covering some mental health issues too - certainly not my main bag

 

[InsatiableCuriosity]

a small proportion are just people trying to excape their personal responsibility.

...and this was one of the reasons I chose not to continue - I found that I have a very low tolerance of attention seeking people with personality disorders when there are so many needing real assistance.

The other two reasons were that I was too young to be able to have the presence to be able to fix the "one flew over the cuckoo's nest" culture of how mental illness was treated, and saddened by the realisation that noone was ever cured, just managed with medication so long as they took it, and most of those with psychoses were progressively worse with each admission.

 

[tinkerbell]

...and this was one of the reasons I chose not to continue - I found that I have a very low tolerance of attention seeking people with personality disorders when there are so many needing real assistance.

The other two reasons were that I was too young to be able to have the presence to be able to fix the "one flew over the cuckoo's nest" culture of how mental illness was treated, and saddened by the realisation that noone was ever cured, just managed with medication so long as they took it, and most of those with psychoses were progressively worse with each admission.

Yea I can emapthise with all of the above, but then western medicine doens't cure physical health either, it's all about management of symptoms. Easter medicine is about promotion of wellness, again no cures there. Antibiotics are one of the fure cures to have been invented as they treat infeaction.

I left because I was nackered, I was working from 7am till 11 pm 6 days a week in a care in the community and had enough, but it took my 5 years there after (I nursed during Uni) to really leave.

Mental health is tricky because there are such a range of issues but the treatments are possitively antiquated and rather scary.

You seemed to have been trained in good faith and then walked into the wall of ethical dilema medicine is plagued with. Good for you to be trained though.

I really do apperciate that the real sick ones are genuinelly sick (even folks with full blown personality issues like BPD rather than just stone heads who camp it up a bit). The one thing that used to scare me though was the properly sick ones when they would go off on an agressive phase - you had no power to rationalise or reason with them, because they could imagine you into a monster or all sorts, so you couldn't deal with agressive beahviours in the same way as my primary discipline.

 

[prplchknz]

I don't work in mental health but I have been in a hospital for a month in highschool, never again. I do have an illness but i try to stay on top of it to avoid going to the hospital because i do not want to ever be locked up again.

 

[InsatiableCuriosity]

I don't work in mental health but I have been in a hospital for a month in highschool, never again. I do have an illness but i try to stay on top of it to avoid going to the hospital because i do not want to ever be locked up again.

You are very brave and smart to stay on top of this and I tip my hat to you.

Maintaining enough insight to recognise and undertake the necessary steps to prevent readmission can be a very difficult thing to do and needs a lot of strength of character and self-discipline