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  1. #1
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    Default The Mental Disorder, or The Functions.

    I'm in a talkative mood right now. I was wondering whether a mental disorder would alter a function and change it, or if it was the thinking process that creates the disorder and those specific functions are more prone to certain disorders (schizophrenia and such)? In simple terms: does the disorder cause the change in thinking, or are certain thinking processes prone to cause mental disorders?

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    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    I think certain types get different mental disorders easier. And for example schizophrenia might come a little different on different types, like st types might see hallucinations more than nf types who might get it more like i feel like something is wrong and has to act in a weird way based on feelings/intuition that they get and that is false from reality.

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    ReflecTcelfeR
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    I don't quite follow. The st would be more likely to believe the hallucinations? Where as the nf would categorize them as an intuitive feeling?

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    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    I don't quite follow. The st would be more likely to believe the hallucinations? Where as the nf would categorize them as an intuitive feeling?
    This is just my theory. But i believe that sensors would more easily see hallucinations(sensoring function being fucked up) and intuitives would get a intuition that something is wrong(intuition function being fucked up). Both would act based on these false perceptions about the external world. But other thing about schizophrenia is that it kinda makes everything a big mess in your head. Schizophrenia is basically that your brains wont stop an unconscious thinking process when it normally should, and this might fool your brains differently based on your type.

  5. #5
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    So it would manifest itself differently based on the function, but the function itself did not cause the disorder. It makes sense. The disorder would then have to be caused through something else then the thinking. I would say that it'd be chemically based then. This is obvious though, I feel like something else is lingering here. I'm also trying to figure out what composes a thought. I'm thinking this may be a way of finding the answer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    So it would manifest itself differently based on the function, but the function itself did not cause the disorder. It makes sense. The disorder would then have to be caused through something else then the thinking. I would say that it'd be chemically based then. This is obvious though, I feel like something else is lingering here. I'm also trying to figure out what composes a thought. I'm thinking this may be a way of finding the answer.
    I dont think you will find a answer to what composes a thought looking at mental disorders, but you can see how different parts of brains effect the thinking process. Also since depression for example is a malfunction of (what ever its called) that produces dopamine, serotonin etc, you cant really see how depression effects the thinking process, but you can see how those chemicals effect persons mood and what kind of thoughts he forms.

    There are speculations that schizophrenia is caused by having too low amount of these chemicals that destroy dmt(Dimethyltryptamine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) before it effects too much on the normal thinking. Dmt like other psychedelic drugs cause schizophrenia like thinking by making these "stoppers" (that normally stop unconscious thinking process before thoughts go beyond sane thinking) not to work or atleast letting the thought kinda go bit too far. Also psychedelics cause unconscious come more conscious, but the unconscious can be so abstract way of thinking to conscious that you cant really make sense of it much, i believe that in mbti terms they kinda spread the energy between functions in more balanced way instead of just aiming the energy to strongest functions(i can clearly see this happening when i smoke alot of weed and situation causes me to use my lower functions, my Se can suddenly work far better than normal for a split second and i can use my Fi without using so much energy when im stoned). This kind of too far away thinking(let it be in a healthy person using psychedelic drugs or mentally ill having too high dosage of dmt) can manifest in person coming more artistic or seeing things in a new way than they used to.

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    Senior Member InsatiableCuriosity's Avatar
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    There is an interesting paper in PDF form here on psychiatric research into relationship between type/temperament and mental illness among psychiatric patients done in 1983 - "Temperament and Psychiatric Illness"
    Cynthia C. Bisbee, Ph.D.1, Robert W. Mullaly, Ph.D.2
    and Humphry Osmond, MRCP, FRCPsych3


    http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&so...sWKZdMQCc85mMg

    There is also a table I recall (but cannot now locate) detailing the likely mental disorders of people whose functions are dys-functional for each of the temperaments.
    "Study hard what interests you the most in the most undisciplined, irreverent and original manner possible."
    — Richard P. Feynman

    "Never tell a person a thing is impossible. G*d/the Universe may have been waiting all this time for someone ignorant enough of the impossibility to do just that thing."
    author unknown

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    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    yes is the answer.... all of the above.

    Mental disorders can b a bt of both, they are extremes of normality, there is one school of thinking is that the lableing of people as having mental disorder is just socieity rejecting strange beahviour. There are 5 rules of thoughts:
    Medical model - basically its an illenss
    Moral beahviour - possition etc
    Psycoalantical model - patient can change
    Socil model - symptom of a sick society
    Conspirtal model - government lableing

    schizophrenia and other psycotic conditions are often realted to having been raised in emotional volitile environments which basically end up swamping the person. But there is multiple types of schizophrenia.

    As for paranoiya etc, I think you can talk yourself into being sick as with a fair few of the so called personality dissorders.

    I did a realatively breif placement in a psyciatric hospital for about 6 weeks, it had a fair few people in it who were basically just a bit board of their life to the poitn they cut up or put their fist through windows - the group then would have a pissing up the wall ontest about who did it premediatedly v's spontaneously... Miraculous recovrey happened if they met someone they wanted to have a relationship, suddenly they didn't want to be in hospital.

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    Senior Member InsatiableCuriosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    yes is the answer.... all of the above.

    Mental disorders can b a bt of both, they are extremes of normality, there is one school of thinking is that the lableing of people as having mental disorder is just socieity rejecting strange beahviour.

    schizophrenia and other psycotic conditions are often realted to having been raised in emotional volitile environments which basically end up swamping the person. But there is multiple types of schizophrenia.

    As for paranoiya etc, I think you can talk yourself into being sick as with a fair few of the so called personality dissorders.

    I did a realatively breif placement in a psyciatric hospital for about 6 weeks, it had a fair few people in it who were basically just a bit board of their life to the poitn they cut up or put their fist through windows - the group then would have a pissing up the wall ontest about who did it premediatedly v's spontaneously... Miraculous recovrey happened if they met someone they wanted to have a relationship, suddenly they didn't want to be in hospital.

    I think perhaps that this is a very simplistic observation of very complex problems. There are of course many people with personality disorder who seek attention and respite BUT mental illness is a serious problem - just ask families who are affected by schizophrenia, bipolar disorder or the "Black Dog" of depression.

    I trained as a mental health nurse when I left school for 3 of the 4 years required to qualify and I can tell you mental illness is a lot for complex than this description.
    "Study hard what interests you the most in the most undisciplined, irreverent and original manner possible."
    — Richard P. Feynman

    "Never tell a person a thing is impossible. G*d/the Universe may have been waiting all this time for someone ignorant enough of the impossibility to do just that thing."
    author unknown

  10. #10
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InsatiableCuriosity View Post

    I think perhaps that this is a very simplistic observation of very complex problems. There are of course many people with personality disorder who seek attention and respite BUT mental illness is a serious problem - just ask families who are affected by schizophrenia, bipolar disorder or the "Black Dog" of depression.

    I trained as a mental health nurse when I left school for 3 of the 4 years required to qualify and I an tell you mental illness is a lot for complex than this description.


    Yes indeed it is a simplification and I was just using it to illustrate the different perspectives. I've re-edited the above post with the 5 views (from the possition through the conspiacy) although don't give a hole lot of detail of each. I needed to look them up.

    There had been an experiment where a bunch of people tried to be admitted to mental hospitals citing the "I hear voices as their only symptom", 80% were admitted, none of them were genuinely sick, some had real difficulty being discharged.

    My personal view point sits with it's an illness that can be treated, but I do also beleive that a small proportion are just people trying to excape their personal responsibility.

    I'm a qualified Mental Handicapped nurse of 13 years experince, although covering some mental health issues too - certainly not my main bag

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