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Thread: Affirmations

  1. #31
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synapse View Post
    It isn't. Its similar to writing down a plan.

    You write down what you want to achieve in 10 years. Your subconscious mind would work towards achieving them and enact parts of what you intended in situations. When blocked from your affirmations this takes longer, the plans, the intentions change. I've observed this process real time and from documentaries like the 7up series. Those plans that were uttered into the subconscious did take shape...40 years later. The affirmations spoken are strong.
    What if I plan to win the world cup with my national soccer team (as a player). Do you really believe affirmations will help me? No they won't, this affirmation stuff works only for things we would likely have already achieved without its help (unless you live your life twice, you'll never have a double-blind experiment showing their effectivness), thus there's a tantamount risk of Forer-effect induced kind of bias, just like in astrology (Look, I managed to reach goal X thanks to affirmations! Who knows though if you wouldn't have reached the same goal without affirmation? Especially true if a time-inverval of 40 years is considered as acceptable).
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  2. #32
    Senior Member Synapse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    What if I plan to win the world cup with my national soccer team (as a player). Do you really believe affirmations will help me? No they won't, this affirmation stuff works only for things we would likely have already achieved without its help (unless you live your life twice, you'll never have a double-blind experiment showing their effectivness), thus there's a tantamount risk of Forer-effect induced kind of bias, just like in astrology (Look, I managed to reach goal X thanks to affirmations! Who knows though if you wouldn't have reached the same goal without affirmation? Especially true if a time-inverval of 40 years is considered as acceptable).
    This was so much better reasoning when I was eating cheese just a moment ago but I'll trying to write it out. This is on a tangent slightly but the patterns are the same, the themes are.

    You misunderstand the premise which is okay, doesn't work like that. Its why new age stuff like The Secret miss the point somewhat. Would Einstein have been able to create what he did without his affirmations and self belief in what he did.

    Its like with CBT and what NLP tries to do too. Except CBT forgets that emotional association plays a pivotal role in peoples infrastructure as do affirmations. While this would work for rational people more often it falters a lot when affirmative self belief is missing.

    And NLP tries to place affirmative self belief scripts in the psyche by changing our thoughts but this falters too when people want to create their own intentions with manipulation. Other times it works like hypnosis, you are activating the part of your brain to create affirmative actions in the waking world.

    Why do you think we have dreams, why some people see them and others aren't privy to them, because the subconscious reflects those symbols, images in messages that affirm who we are to achieve what we want in our life times. Why do you think we are in resting states so often, is it just to sleep. hardly we communicate with our subconscious and dream about those intentions and affirmations, positive and negative alike. as well as to recuperate our energy so we are rested.

  3. #33
    Senior Member durentu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    My mom got me into them recently. Just a quick wiki tidbit for those that don't know. Affirmations (New Age) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    They are kind of new-agey as the article implies. Not sure about the current scientific validity of these. I've always believed that the universe will give you what you ask for, or respond to positive and negative thoughts. (Perhaps this was my upbringing.)

    What do you guys think?
    Quacky? Out there? A ploy to make money from the vulnerable? Or amazing up and coming discovery?
    Arguing the case for the existence of the effectiveness of affirmations is a very difficult one. I've been thinking about this for a while from an existential perspective. This phenomena exists at least in one iteration.

    The thing about affirmations is not about submitting an order to the universe. As if you wanted the awesome life combo #2 with fries and a milk shake. The reason why this will not work is because the correct emotional content isn't there. For these affirmations to work, you must internally experience that result which you seek. Asking for rain will never work. Feeling the mud squish between your toes and hearing the drops his the ground is the emotional content that is necessary.

    The second part of this is that after you have this subjective imaginary experience, it still doesn't summon the universe to rearrange itself around you to fulfill the order. What is actually does, is it alters your own world view and subjective experience to be ready or to be opportunistic to that result.

    The real mechanics of this is simply one's preconception or perspective is altered. If you perceive a bad date, then you will probably have a bad date. If you perceive a quirky one, then you will probably have that too. When your mind is primed, or oriented in a certain way, you will pick up on these things and act upon them.

    This is part of creating meaning for oneself. A human without any meaning whatsoever, is a dead duck. This meaning is essential to every human and it's created in two ways. One way is for the self to create these meaning via affirmations/habits, belief systems etc. The other way is for others to tell you what you are. Thomas Szasz is correct in saying "in the animal kingdom, the rule is to eat or be eaten. In the human kingdom, to define to be defined". Part this definition is meaning in life to which these affirmations helps not only to create, but also to flip the coin in favor of the self. For the self to define itself, not to be defined by external factors.

    So then why do these affirmations need to have this emotional content? Because you won't remember anything if it had absolutely zero emotional impact on you. Did you notice that car blinker blinks at 60 blinks per minute? you saw, but you couldn't care less hence you don't remember it: it has fallen outside of your perception. Emotions are essential to memory as they are the filters between everything we sense, to what we remember. Emotions are also essential for long term memory.


    Again, affirmations are not inputs for the universe to output. It's simply a very effective way to change your own perspective to be receptive to a desired result. Does it work? yes. Can I prove it to you? no and the reason why is that we cannot exchange or communicate our subjective experiences verbatim. We can only do it through virtual means like text and language.

    The only way you'll every know if it works for you, is to try it for yourself. Make up your own damned mind, but don't knock it until you try it. Just like food. This is quanta and perhaps spirituality.


    refs:
    neuroplasticity
    viktor frankl (man's search for meaning)
    freud's talking cure
    CBT/REBT Albert ellis
    thomas szasz
    sartre/nietche/heidigger/camus etc
    buddist meditation, christian prayers
    brian tracey's work
    steven covey's work (7 habits book)
    schopenhauer
    philosophers on guilt (I forget the names)
    Ramachandran on consciousness
    various articles about amygdala and hippocampus changes under stress and depression
    PTSD studies
    heisenburg (his principle of observations alter results)
    dabrowski's positive disintegration
    neurological/fmri studies in emotive memory
    MIT papers on AI based on emotive memory
    harvard business review
    few world banc studies in economics
    fed reserve studies in incentives
    various studies on lucky people/psychology
    duncker's candle problem studies
    prison experiments and studies
    Think and Grow Rich - Napoleon Hill
    personal experiences


    EDIT:
    This affirmation phenomena is part of human existence. I'm sure everyone of us has experienced this sort of thing before to some degree. It's only a matter of leveraging this thing. The systems created around this phenomena is the source of religion and quacks. Chakras, crystals, purple colors, candle readings etc are all systems around this core idea to help people grasp onto something while working with this idea. Some people miss the point entirely believing that buying quakery will product these results, but a sucker is born every minute. don't need to buy anything, just for shits and giggles, try it out. It's good for at least a laugh.
    "People often say that this or that person has not yet found himself. But the self is not something one finds; it is something one creates." - Thomas Szasz

  4. #34
    Senior Member Synapse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by durentu View Post
    Arguing the case for the existence of the effectiveness of affirmations is a very difficult one. I've been thinking about this for a while from an existential perspective. This phenomena exists at least in one iteration.

    The thing about affirmations is not about submitting an order to the universe. As if you wanted the awesome life combo #2 with fries and a milk shake. The reason why this will not work is because the correct emotional content isn't there. For these affirmations to work, you must internally experience that result which you seek. Asking for rain will never work. Feeling the mud squish between your toes and hearing the drops his the ground is the emotional content that is necessary.

    The second part of this is that after you have this subjective imaginary experience, it still doesn't summon the universe to rearrange itself around you to fulfill the order. What is actually does, is it alters your own world view and subjective experience to be ready or to be opportunistic to that result.

    The real mechanics of this is simply one's preconception or perspective is altered. If you perceive a bad date, then you will probably have a bad date. If you perceive a quirky one, then you will probably have that too. When your mind is primed, or oriented in a certain way, you will pick up on these things and act upon them.

    This is part of creating meaning for oneself. A human without any meaning whatsoever, is a dead duck. This meaning is essential to every human and it's created in two ways. One way is for the self to create these meaning via affirmations/habits, belief systems etc. The other way is for others to tell you what you are. Thomas Szasz is correct in saying "in the animal kingdom, the rule is to eat or be eaten. In the human kingdom, to define to be defined". Part this definition is meaning in life to which these affirmations helps not only to create, but also to flip the coin in favor of the self. For the self to define itself, not to be defined by external factors.

    So then why do these affirmations need to have this emotional content? Because you won't remember anything if it had absolutely zero emotional impact on you. Did you notice that car blinker blinks at 60 blinks per minute? you saw, but you couldn't care less hence you don't remember it: it has fallen outside of your perception. Emotions are essential to memory as they are the filters between everything we sense, to what we remember. Emotions are also essential for long term memory.


    Again, affirmations are not inputs for the universe to output. It's simply a very effective way to change your own perspective to be receptive to a desired result. Does it work? yes. Can I prove it to you? no and the reason why is that we cannot exchange or communicate our subjective experiences verbatim. We can only do it through virtual means like text and language.

    The only way you'll every know if it works for you, is to try it for yourself. Make up your own damned mind, but don't knock it until you try it. Just like food. This is quanta and perhaps spirituality.


    refs:
    neuroplasticity
    viktor frankl (man's search for meaning)
    freud's talking cure
    CBT/REBT Albert ellis
    thomas szasz
    sartre/nietche/heidigger/camus etc
    buddist meditation, christian prayers
    brian tracey's work
    steven covey's work (7 habits book)
    schopenhauer
    philosophers on guilt (I forget the names)
    Ramachandran on consciousness
    various articles about amygdala and hippocampus changes under stress and depression
    PTSD studies
    heisenburg (his principle of observations alter results)
    dabrowski's positive disintegration
    neurological/fmri studies in emotive memory
    MIT papers on AI based on emotive memory
    harvard business review
    few world banc studies in economics
    fed reserve studies in incentives
    various studies on lucky people/psychology
    duncker's candle problem studies
    prison experiments and studies
    Think and Grow Rich - Napoleon Hill
    personal experiences


    EDIT:
    This affirmation phenomena is part of human existence. I'm sure everyone of us has experienced this sort of thing before to some degree. It's only a matter of leveraging this thing. The systems created around this phenomena is the source of religion and quacks. Chakras, crystals, purple colors, candle readings etc are all systems around this core idea to help people grasp onto something while working with this idea. Some people miss the point entirely believing that buying quakery will product these results, but a sucker is born every minute. don't need to buy anything, just for shits and giggles, try it out. It's good for at least a laugh.
    Sweet! that's what i'm talking about. are you sure your not NF, you seem to have a sound grasp of emotional association.

  5. #35
    Senior Member durentu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synapse View Post
    Sweet! that's what i'm talking about. are you sure your not NF, you seem to have a sound grasp of emotional association.
    phase 1: affirmation = "live life as INTP"
    phase 2: affirmation = "live life as NT"
    phase 3: affirmation = "live life as N"
    phase 4: affirmation = "live life as... me"


    I see MBTI as a great empowering thing, but I see that many people here still think that MBTI or one's personality cannot change, therefore it is destiny and fate, like genetics. But like genetics, it's important, but that's not the whole story. It's really genetics + epigenetics. It's really MBTI + belief system

    EDIT:

    You become what you think and feel most of the time. This knowledge has been known for thousands of years. Even 4000-5000 years in the indian culture. What is 'new age' is the products and services (gimmicks and quackeries) that are around in the last century. The best 'how to' book is Think and Grow Rich by napoleon hill. He spells it out pretty darn clear and you can find a copy of it free online.
    Last edited by durentu; 06-16-2010 at 11:42 AM.
    "People often say that this or that person has not yet found himself. But the self is not something one finds; it is something one creates." - Thomas Szasz

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