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  1. #71
    Senior Member chooi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Possibly. I have mixed feelings about mental illness and the way that it is treated. On one hand it must be treated in a manner to allow the person to be functional and not tortured. Schizophrenia can outright torture a person - it's not like happy la la land, which is what some people seem to think. On the other hand, people who suffer from bipolar disorder report being more creative when unmedicated, and I do know that a rather shocking numbers of writers suffered from what is or what was probably what we now call bipolar disorder.
    Definitely not.

    The reason I ask about the hallucinations is because here a Beautiful Mind it says that Nash was delusional, rather than having hallucinations. There is some bias, however, as the site is against the current classification and treatment of schizophrenia within the psychiatric/psychological field. However, the author of the article did have a phd in psychology, which adds validity to the argument. He agrees that the film is a romanticization, and also says that the initial treatment for Nash HURT, rather than helped him. I do disagree with him on one point though, he says that Nash's illness disappeared of its own accord. I've read elsewhere that he still struggles, but manages.

    In my opinion schizophrenia, more than other mental illnesses, all of which the psychiatric community tend to regard as mostly chemical in nature, is an illness induced and fostered by cultural/communicative factors. I think, as you kind of do raga, that schizophrenics and people who suffer from some other mental illnesses, do share some of the same characteristics (biological and personal) that highly-creative people do - namely, that they are extremely sensitive and receptive to their environment, and qualify it differently from how the majority of people do. I talk about this in one of my posts maybe one or two pages back.

    And mental illness runs in my family as well. Schizophrenia has particularly been of interest to me because of the reasons listed above. Also, I have noticed schizophrenic tendencies, which sometimes worry me, in my own personality. People also consider me highly creative.

  2. #72
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I'm very sorry your brother went through this.
    Thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    As I say, there must be different ways to treat mental illness than simply sedating people to the point of where they lose all personality, and there has been great progress in terms of the medications in the past 20 to 25 years, including vitamins and nutrition - something called orthomolecular therapy - used to treat schizophrenia which allows people to maintain their personality instead of merely being tranquilized.
    I'm reasonably sure that he was actually killed by being prescribed too high a dose of drugs, when he was sent back home for a while and began to lose control of his behaviour again, but couldn't be taken back into hospital due to a shortage of suitable places. The verdict was "natural causes" but he was 25years old, and despite not taking proper care of himself had no serious physical health problems that anyone knew about, so this was either a whitewash for the health services, or something I should myself be concerned about due to the likelihood of it being linked to Sudden Adult Death Syndrome, which has a strong genetic component and puts siblings at much higher risk. The latter is not a big worry, however, given what I've found out about the known risks of the drugs he was on. He was quite large (about 6'4) and had become somewhat overweight due to lack of physical activity; the dose he was being given to keep him sedated and stop him running amok when he became delusional and angry again was thus extremely high.

    In general I think that giving people drugs can only mask the symptoms and make them more manageable; I don't think there's much evidence that they can really provide a cure, or that the condition is actually primarily a biological one, though there may be biological factors that increase susceptibility in an individual. To me it seems more like a bad life coping strategy that certain people, perhaps those with the characteristics indicated by the report, are prone to develop at much lower thresholds than others; the problem is that since it makes it so difficult for sufferers to engage with reality, a therapeutic cure is hard to find.
    Look into my avatar. Look deep into my avatar...

  3. #73
    Senior Member chooi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragashree View Post
    In general I think that giving people drugs can only mask the symptoms and make them more manageable; I don't think there's much evidence that they can really provide a cure, or that the condition is actually primarily a biological one, though there may be biological factors that increase susceptibility in an individual. To me it seems more like a bad life coping strategy that certain people, perhaps those with the characteristics indicated by the report, are prone to develop at much lower thresholds than others; the problem is that since it makes it so difficult for sufferers to engage with reality, a therapeutic cure is hard to find.
    Raga, I feel like you and I think very much alike. I would probably hate you if I met you in real life.

    Hahaha, kidding, kidding.

  4. #74
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chooi View Post
    Raga, I feel like you and I think very much alike. I would probably hate you if I met you in real life.

    Hahaha, kidding, kidding.
    Have you ever been ennea-tested - you've got to be a four, surely?
    Look into my avatar. Look deep into my avatar...

  5. #75
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chooi View Post
    People also consider me highly creative.
    Well, I take you at face value.

    So what have you created that is new?

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by chooi View Post
    In my opinion schizophrenia, more than other mental illnesses, all of which the psychiatric community tend to regard as mostly chemical in nature, is an illness induced and fostered by cultural/communicative factors.
    It's interesting that you say this. I know a guy who just came to the United States from Russia in the past three weeks, and he said "you have a lot of crazy people here." At first I thought he was kidding, but then he pointed out all of the people who walk around talking to themselves. I said that since we are in L.A., and before that he was in NYC, that there's a strong possibility that it's drug related, particularly to crystal meth. He said no, I think people here are very alone.

    Totally anecdotal, but it resonates with what you just wrote.

  7. #77
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    ...he pointed out all of the people [in America] who walk around talking to themselves...I think people here are very alone.
    And yes, we come onto this site in order to be listened to. But we all want to be listened to and no one wants to listen. So we end up talking to ourselves.

    We come for company but end up alone.

    But they say an American is never more American than when they are alone.

  8. #78
    Senior Member chooi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragashree View Post
    Have you ever been ennea-tested - you've got to be a four, surely?
    Haha, just took it today. Still can't decide between 4 or 9 (posted in the ennegram forum). Thinking 4, though.

  9. #79
    Senior Member chooi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Well, I take you at face value.

    So what have you created that is new?
    I created a sculpture. It's called "Victor chooses to ignore most people's criticism, including mine, of his argument that you can be Mozart in 10,000 hours, but wants to bust my balls". It's very abstract. Would you like to see it?

    Creative enough?

  10. #80
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    And yes, we come onto this site in order to be listened to. But we all want to be listened to and no one wants to listen. So we end up talking to ourselves.

    We come for company but end up alone.

    But they say an American is never more American than when they are alone.
    Again, with the "we" stuff. Don't speak for others. I know I've made some cool acquaintances here, with a "satisfying" amount of back and forth in our conversations.

    This thread is proceeding nicely with people talking to each other too.

    Even I'm listening to you Victor, and talking to you right now. Even if you somehow imagine this is another "ad hominem".

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