Creative minds 'mimic schizophrenia'

[chooi]

I am Russell Crowe; my mind is beautiful.

"Results: -You scored a total of 8.

*mock astonishment* Oh my.

Hahaha, I lol'd. John Nash is an interesting example, though. One that kind of refutes schizophrenia as being totally chemical/biolgical. First of all, I don't think that Nash actually hallucinated (not sure though). But the movie definitely exaggerated his illness. Anyways, didn't he just become "unschizophrenic" with time, possibly after a working out of his "confusion"?

His son is also schizo so there is something to be said about that.

 

[Mole]

Ten Thousand Hours of Practice

People already know this. All of those great painters, writers, and musicians from centuries prior were often eccentric or had a substance abuse problem or went mad at some point.

This is a myth of Romanticism. In particular it is the myth of the Romantic Individual, realised in the myth of the genius.

Today we know better and we know that most can be a genius after ten thousand hours of practice.

But of course most do not want to do ten thousand hours of practice, and so we look for the easy way out and say individual genius is result of derangement or, as we used to say, "Touched by God".

And of course, 'touched' means mad.

But all it takes is ten thousand hours of practice. Even Mozart, the divine composer musician, did ten thousand hours of practice.

But guess what - they never tell us that even Mozart had to practice for ten thousand hours before he was, "touched by God".

Just as we would have to practise for ten thousand hours before we were 'touched'. But we prefer to fantasize about madness and drugs rather than do the practice.

 

[KDude]

practice is good, i'll agree with you there. at the very least, you need to be inclined to be an artist first.

on the flipside, certain manic states, for example, could make you VERY productive (i think jack kerouac is a solid example of a manic artist). as for schizoid or altered states, it's possible someone already inclined to art will start seeing things in a new way, and create something beautiful out of it. lets just hope they come back down to earth otherwise.

 

[chooi]

This is a myth of Romanticism. In particular it is the myth of the Romantic Individual, realised in the myth of the genius.

Today we know better and we know that most can be a genius after ten thousand hours of practice.

But of course most do not want to do ten thousand hours of practice, and so we look for the easy way out and say individual genius is result of derangement or, as we used to say, "Touched by God".

And of course, 'touched' means mad.

But all it takes is ten thousand hours of practice. Even Mozart, the divine composer musician, had ten thousand hours of practice.

But guess what - they never tell us that even Mozart had to practice for ten thousand hours before he was, "touched by God".

And so would we have to practise. But we prefer to fantasize about madness and drugs.

But aren't there also cases of having thresholds or creative limits that can't be breached? I'm sure plenty of people know musicians/artists/writers who practice their craft for a lifetime and still end up producing, to most people, complete and utter sh1t.

 

[Mole]

...what is "normal" has become increasingly narrow.

And what is normal is simply narcissistic.

We would far prefer to boost our children's self esteem than to tell them they must do ten thousand hours of practice.

And the result is narrow, narcissistic children.

 

[Mole]

But aren't there also cases of having thresholds or creative limits that can't be breached? I'm sure plenty of people know musicians/artists/writers who practice their craft for a lifetime and still end up producing, to most people, complete and utter sh1t.

"Practising their craft", is different from practising.

Just as playing the piano is different from practising the piano. And it is only practising the piano for ten thousand hours that will turn you into a genius.

 

[Jaguar]

And what is normal is simply narcissistic.

We would far prefer to boost our children's self esteem than to tell them they must do ten thousand hours of practice.

And the result is narrow, narcissistic children.

Tripe.

 

[ragashree]

I hope Victor doesn't have children :rolli:

 

[Mole]

practice is good, i'll agree with you there. at the very least, you need to be inclined to be an artist first.

on the flipside, certain manic states, for example, could make you VERY productive (i think jack kerouac is a solid example of a manic artist). as for schizoid or altered states, it's possible someone already inclined to art will start seeing things in a new way, and create something beautiful out of it. lets just hope they come back down to earth otherwise.

Ten thousand hours is a very long time to practise. So it takes excellent reality contact and personal discipline.

Mania, of course, only lasts for a short time and is out of contact with reality.

 

[KDude]

I would pay attention more to Victor, if he didn't come off so "narcissistic" himself. I mean, he speaks of himself in a declarative "we" tone a lot. Wtf is up with that? Secondly, he rides on authoritarians' asses, but yet, he wants to say how everyone is raising their children wrong...and how he has the right view on the matter. And worse, it's probably real close right now to him making this yet another thread about America vs Australia... pulling some selfcentered political point into the mix. And he knows all... And why? Because he has ascended to some non-tranced state...or something. Please. Don't even mention the word narcissistic, Vic. Unless you're willing to describe yourself in those terms.

 

[Jaguar]

I hope Victor doesn't have children :rolli:

You and I think way too much alike.

 

[ragashree]

I would pay attention more to Victor, if he himself didn't come off so "narcissistic" himself. I mean, he speaks of himself in a declarative "we" tone a lot. Wtf is up with that? Secondly, he rides on authoritarians' asses, but yet, he wants to say how everyone is raising their children wrong...and how he has the right view on the matter. And worse, it's probably real close right now to him making this yet another thread about America vs Australia... pulling some selfcentered political point into the mix. And he knows all... And why? Because he has ascended to some non-tranced state...or something. Please. Don't even mention the word narcissistic, Vic. Unless you're willing to describe yourself in those terms.

Today we know better and we know that most can be a genius after ten thousand hours of practice.

But of course most do not want to do ten thousand hours of practice, and so we look for the easy way out and say individual genius is result of derangement or, as we used to say, "Touched by God".

But all it takes is ten thousand hours of practice. Even Mozart, the divine composer musician, did ten thousand hours of practice.

If this was true, Victor, by your own logic you'd be a brilliantly convincing debater by now, wouldn't you?

 

[Mole]

I would pay attention more to Victor, if he himself didn't come off so "narcissistic" himself. I mean, he speaks of himself in a declarative "we" tone a lot. Wtf is up with that? Secondly, he rides on authoritarians' asses, but yet, he wants to say how everyone is raising their children wrong...and how he has the right view on the matter. And worse, it's probably real close right now to him making this yet another thread about America vs Australia... pulling some selfcentered political point into the mix. And he knows all... And why? Because he has ascended to some non-tranced state...or something. Please. Don't even mention the word narcissistic, Vic. Unless you're willing to describe yourself in those terms.

Ad hominem attacks are against the rules, and may lead to banning.

 

[Resonance]

If this was true, Victor, by your own logic you'd be a brilliantly convincing debater by now, wouldn't you?

practice is repetition with the intent to improve.

 

[chooi]

Ten thousand hours is a very long time to practise. So it takes excellent reality contact and personal discipline.

Mania, of course, only lasts for a short time and is out of contact with reality.

What exactly is your definition of "reality"? And somewhere in this thread, I think we've forgotten that there MAY be a difference between what people consider "genius" and what people consider "creative".

 

[ragashree]

practice is repetition with the intent to improve.

But he said that was ALL it took... And yet he doesn't seem to be there yet...

 

[Mole]

practice is repetition with the intent to improve.

Precisely.

 

[KDude]

Ad hominem attacks are against the rules, and may lead to banning.

Lets see just who wants to ban me then.

I am so narcissitic to declare that I am too cool to get banned.

 

[chooi]

practice is repetition with the intent to improve.

This still bothers me a bit. I'm sure you would be a more proficient pianist or whatever, but would you be more creative? And I still feel as if there's plenty of people who attempt and want to improve, and practice at it, but still cannot cross a certain barrier. That's like saying with 10,000 hours of practice I could dunk on Lebron.

 

[Jaguar]

Ad hominem attacks are against the rules, and may lead to banning.

Smoking is hazardous to your health and may lead to lung cancer.