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  1. #21
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    Hmm... That was quite interesting. I have a sort of a block against the info, though... I see creativity as a sign of mental health, so how does that work out?
    "And now that you are having the time of your life, well think twice that's my only advice"

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    The opposite is also possible. The child develops a rebellious personality to combat the oppression.
    was going to say the same thing.


    @ OP> great article. Fascinating read. : ) This is very interesting considering my circumstance.

  3. #23
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    The opposite is also possible. The child develops a rebellious personality to combat the oppression.
    Existential psychology suggests that this may, in fact, be the key to much schizophrenia. The child does not feel able to rebel openly, and has an active imagination, and therefore engages in an outward compliance with the demands of others while living in an inner fantasy world. Schizophrenic tendencies become outwardly manifest when the personalised inner world, where their sense of self is located, comes to dominate their awareness so much that it takes precedence over their interactions with the outer world that is experienced as intersubjective "reality" by others. This is the split between inner and outer worlds, the "schizo-" of the "divided mind" that the term describes.
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  4. #24
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    I had the rebelliousness period, and the schizo period (which was aided by psychedelics, but whatever). I'm probably one of those peeps Nolla mentioned, who went to the border (I did get hospitalized for a little while however..so you might as well say I was crazy, not just borderline). What's funny though is that more I try to align myself with normalcy, the less inspired-flowing with ideas I become. I used to have a fucking orchestra in my head.. I used to snapshot visuals as a I walked about, and see how that could be choreographed in a project somewhere down the line. That doesn't happen as much anymore.. hell, I barely even dream anymore. I feel more sterile or mechanical at times..not crazy creative..not sure how to explain it. It just seems like the more creative mindstate was also a crazier one. And I'm afraid to steep too much into it (and btw, that's why I quoted Cee-lo above...it's exactly why he wrote that song from what I read).

  5. #25
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    I am very skeptical of any claim that equates mental illness with genius. There is a difference between being bright and being nuts. Of course it possible to be both insane and really smart, but as far as I can tell, there isn't much variation in percentage of crazy geniuses vs crazy joe schmoes with average IQ. I think that "crazy genius" makes for a colorful persona, so someone like Van Gogh is more prone to become a poster child for a talented artist than someone like Aivazovsky. And then the article itself mentioned how a lot of people equate creativity with mental illness, even though one does not necessarily imply the other.

    I just grow weary of this popular culture cliches that every weirdo, wacko, or retard is some kind of a savant in disguise. A naive ENFP friend of mine went to teach art to schizophrenic kids believing their schizophrenia equated to artistic potential. He quickly realized that their drawings were just as shitty as any other ordinary kid drawings.

    Reminds me of Stephen Hawking when he said that the reason he gets called "the smartest man in the world" a lot is because media is obssessed with the idea of a crippled genius. Not to say that he isn't a smart guy, its just that he probably wouldn't get nearly as much attention if he didn't have ALS.
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  6. #26
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Well, some schizos DO creatively smear shit on the walls at least. Gotta give em that, man.

  7. #27
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Well, some schizos DO creatively smear shit on the walls at least. Gotta give em that, man.
    I guess a lot of monkeys have schizophrenia too.
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

  8. #28
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Anyways! I can't say I've met many bonafide schizophrenics to tell. I saw some during rehab, but they were zombiefied most of the time. I knew one dude back in highschool though who was a great guitar player, but schizophrenic. Problem with him is that he could never hold on to any of his gear.. usually sold his stuff for one reason or another...so it's not like he ever was productive about it.

    Bi-Polars may be another story.

  9. #29
    Senior Member chooi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    Hmm... That was quite interesting. I have a sort of a block against the info, though... I see creativity as a sign of mental health, so how does that work out? Oh, I am not talking about the most creative-looking people, they are usually phonies just trying to think outside the box because it is fashionable. And I am not talking about the crazies, either. The truly creative people I've met were the sanest people I know. Maybe they once went on the border of insanity, but they came back as good as new.
    I took "Culture and Personality" last semester, which is an anthro class. My prof drew on Bateson and systems theory to argue on a variety of topics. Shizophrenia was one of the topics that came up. His view is that schizos, after receiving confusing messages in double-bind situations, make sense of that information in ways that seem strange,crazy, or different to normal people. Sounds like creativity to me.

    For example, a video we watched had a woman who talked about the "dark-haired people being in control, and running the world". My prof connected that to the stereotype about dumb blondes, which is pretty widespread. Another interviewee in the same video talked about "they are always watching me, when i step outside. they can see me everywhere". This was connected to Star Wars and other surveillance efforts by governments.

    Of course, this approach brings up questions of nature vs. nurture. And I'm sure more "hard-science"-minded individuals might call it gobbledy-gook. Here's a website that criticizes the psychological approach to schizophrenia.
    Successful Schizophrenia

    For me, at least, schizophrenia is a negotiation between the psychological approach and the more cultural approach implied by my prof.

  10. #30
    Senior Member chooi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I had the rebelliousness period, and the schizo period (which was aided by psychedelics, but whatever). I'm probably one of those peeps Nolla mentioned, who went to the border (I did get hospitalized for a little while however..so you might as well say I was crazy, not just borderline). What's funny though is that more I try to align myself with normalcy, the less inspired-flowing with ideas I become. I used to have a fucking orchestra in my head.. I used to snapshot visuals as a I walked about, and see how that could be choreographed in a project somewhere down the line. That doesn't happen as much anymore.. hell, I barely even dream anymore. I feel more sterile or mechanical at times..not crazy creative..not sure how to explain it. It just seems like the more creative mindstate was also a crazier one. And I'm afraid to steep too much into it (and btw, that's why I quoted Cee-lo above...it's exactly why he wrote that song from what I read).
    I do notice some similarities between the two. Most people consider me extremely creative. However, most of the things that they pin on me as being "creative behavior" are used to screen for schizphrenia. Check the questions at the link. Psych Central - Schizophrenia Screening Quiz

    Sounds close to the same beliefs that are found in Enneagram type 4, don't they? I've also felt like I could be schizotypal at times.

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