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  1. #111
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chooi View Post
    So are you suggesting that literate Western culture is superior to "sexist", "barbarian" tribalism, as you put it? They are "ignorant of the world"? "Out of touch with reality"?
    Yes.

  2. #112
    Senior Member chooi's Avatar
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    Hahahaha, gotta respect someone who stands by their guns. Succinct, too.

  3. #113
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tawanda View Post
    I've only had schizophrenic episodes about 3-4 times in my life, and in no way have they been fun, enlightening, or in any way have inspired my creativity.
    I know someone who has serious mental disorders and is mostly robotic.
    I see little relation.
    You're getting this back to front, a converse error of reasoning. It's not about mental disorders necessarily being a source of creative insight, but about creativity and certain mental disorders possibly sharing a common neurological origin. Creativity could perhaps be taken as the sucessful healthy channeling of these traits, severe mental disorder as the unhealthy channeling, which may serve to actually destroy or undermine creative potential by inhibiting the person's overall functioning.

    In this model, a person who was both mentally disordered and was still able to achieve something creative would not be creative because of the mental disorder, they would be creative because they were still able to make some successful use of their innate potential despite the fact that it was to some extent also functioning unhealthily.
    Look into my avatar. Look deep into my avatar...

  4. #114
    Senior Member angelhair45's Avatar
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    I am one of those creative people who also had some mental issues. I had a breakdown at 15. I was told I was a mild schizophrenic. I really had trouble dealing with life. I was not bad enough to be medicated, but I sure acted out a lot. It was like my body was out of control, trying to deal with what was happening in my mind.

    That's why it's my opinion.
    I wasn't talking about the article specifically. As you know, topics tend to change as more posts get added to them. But on that note, I would think a tendency to receive unfiltered signals to the thalamus would make it more likely that you would be sensitive to stimuli around you, i.e. the environment. And I include culture with environment. Perhaps "receptive" was not a good word choice, since that implies a conscious taking-in of information. By sensitive, I don't mean being in tune with your environment. I mean being "aware" and not necessarily consciously. You become so viscerally "aware" that it's almost difficult to control and that manifests itself in strange behavior/illness and creative, artistic masterpieces.
    This really rings true for me. I can definitely see this as a possibility. Even now, during my really creative times I tend to get really manic and for some people just a step away from crazy.

  5. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragashree View Post
    You're getting this back to front, a converse error of reasoning. It's not about mental disorders necessarily being a source of creative insight, but about creativity and certain mental disorders possibly sharing a common neurological origin. Creativity could perhaps be taken as the sucessful healthy channeling of these traits, severe mental disorder as the unhealthy channeling, which may serve to actually destroy or undermine creative potential by inhibiting the person's overall functioning.

    In this model, a person who was both mentally disordered and was still able to achieve something creative would not be creative because of the mental disorder, they would be creative because they were still able to make some successful use of their innate potential despite the fact that it was to some extent also functioning unhealthily.
    nice job there

    there are countless examples of many famous artists/musicians who have been "mentally ill" and extremely creative that could support this theory of a common neurological origin.

  6. #116
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Sanity is only that which is within the frame of reference of conventional thought.
    ~Erich Fromm
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  7. #117
    Senior Member guesswho's Avatar
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    I'm really fascinated by Van Gogh's story, his struggles with his mental illness...and the fact that his paintings weren't appreciated.
    He died alone. No money. No love. No nothing. 'The sadness will last forever' he said.

    Now his paintings are worth millions. People care now. People love him. But what's the point of all this...when he was loved by so few during his lifetime.



    Creativity does have a dark side.

  8. #118
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    people have psychedelic substances in their brains, they also have these substances that inhibits the psychedelic substances to work too much. psychedelics remove some these kind of stoppers(more stoppers removed more you take the substance) that prevent thoughts from going too far. kinda like preventing people from not associate too much, they also make you use lower functions easier.

    people with schizophrenia have too low amount of these substances that prevent the psychedelics from working too much, thats why they create unhealthy thoughts, because the stoppers dont work properly. creative people have less of these substances that prevent the psychedelics from working, so they have more creative thoughts than non creative people since they take thoughts further since the stoppers let thoughts go bit further but not too far that they would be unhealthy thoughts.

    this is also the reason why schizophrenics might change their personality because psychedelic substances make people use their weaker function easily.
    would be fascinating to study if schizophrenics show only weak sides of this new personality(or functions that they started using after getting ill)
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
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  9. #119
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Awesome read!

    I want to work for an employer that has a "skunk works" lab as mentioned in the article.

    That would be grrrreat!

    I took the MMPI a few years ago as part of some self discovery work.

    One of the results mentioned to me was that I scored a wee bit over the results of most people on the schizotypal index.

    The counselor interpreting the test results then asked me if I had ever been depressed, and at that time I said "No, never actually. I'm pretty happy all the time." To which he said "Good for you!"

    He then noted that in my initial discussion with him I told him that I exhibited alot of ADHD symptoms (I had not been diagnosed at that point) as pointed out to me by two different friends, both in counseling/psych related professions.

    So, the final comment from this guy was "Interesting. Maybe it goes like this for you. The schizotypal index lends you to be creative, to make abstract associations between things. Part of ADHD is an usually high amount of energy and above average 'happy go lucky' feelings. Maybe you got the best of these two traits and none of the baggage. My guess is you'll live a happy and productive life and are at low risk for depression in general. Keep these things in mind over the next few years and see how it goes."

    He was right. Even though I have suffered a "major depressive episode" it was very short lived, and I figured out how to beat it by developing my feelings and identifying a plan of action to resolve two life issues that were troubling me. It took no more than two months to get through the bulk of it. I took Lexapro for two days and then flushed it as I thought it was crap and didn't do anything for me I couldn't do myself. Other than that spell I've been trucking along just like the dude predicted.

    I'm very, very thankful for being wired as oddly as I am.

    -Halla

    P.S. I can't wait to listen in on the ADHD teleconference this October with you, Insatiable Curiousity!
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  10. #120
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    Schizophrenia is a psychosis and psychotics are out of touch with reality.

    Whereas to be creative it is necessary to have good reality contact.

    However as a reaction to the Enlightenment the Romantics confused the creative with the psychotic.

    And so we are told that there is only a thin line separating the mad from the creative.

    And this leads to absurdity.

    But worse, the bien pensant tell us we are all creative.

    But if we are all creative, then none are creative.

    However narcissists can help believing we are all creative - particularly them.

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