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  1. #101
    Reptilian Snuggletron's Avatar
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    I guess I can see the connection, but the creative folks who embrace this kind of thing just do it to feel more specialer about themshelves.

  2. #102
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adoamros View Post
    I guess I can see the connection, but the creative folks who embrace this kind of thing just do it to feel more specialer special about themshelves.
    Labeling yourself as having mental problems makes you feel special?

    I don't see your reasoning.
    Look into my avatar. Look deep into my avatar...

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by GemPOPGem View Post
    It's exactly this kind of belief (or the pretence of it) that has led to hundreds, if not thousands of years of hostile take overs of lands. Of course the real reasons, more obviously in earlier history were simply to own the land and it's properties- diamonds, spices,oil, fertile land etc. Also for strageic millitary purposes. Of course other reasons too but for a large part the reasons i have mentioned.
    Sure, history is a nightmare from which we are trying to wake up.

    And we started to wake up in the 17th and 18th Centuries with the Enlightenment.

    And one of the fruits of the Enlightenment is universal literacy, only achieved very recently in developed countries.

    Of course the hallmark of tribalism is a spoken culture, or illiteracy.

    And vast swathes of the planet are still illiterate, still propagating their tribal and religious hatreds as well as hatred of women, children, homosexuals and Jews.

    The Enlightenment has made remarkable progress in many fields over the last 200 years. And providing the tribalists don't get their hands on nuclear, chemical or biological weapons, there is no reason we can't continue our progress.

    Look at Australia on the map. We were formed by the Scottish and English Enlightenment. And the point of our spear is a city called Darwin, named after Charles Darwin, a son to the Enlightenment. And the city of Darwin it pointing at the tribal cultures, the spoken cultures, directly to our north.

    You might say that Enlightenment Australia, literate Australia, is pointing at the nether regions of the illiterate north.

  4. #104
    ¡MI TORTA! Amethyst's Avatar
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    I've only had schizophrenic episodes about 3-4 times in my life, and in no way have they been fun, enlightening, or in any way have inspired my creativity.
    I know someone who has serious mental disorders and is mostly robotic.
    I see little relation.

  5. #105
    Reptilian Snuggletron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragashree View Post
    Labeling yourself as having mental problems makes you feel special?

    I don't see your reasoning.


    >mental problems
    >minority
    >special

  6. #106
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adoamros View Post
    >mental problems
    >special
    If that was meant to be a pun, it could have used some improvement so it was actually funny...
    Look into my avatar. Look deep into my avatar...

  7. #107
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    NFs can't reason or be funny, so why try

  8. #108
    Senior Member chooi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Tribal practices are sexist, racist and xenophobic based on slavery, the subjugation of women and the abuse of children.

    And tribal beliefs are based on ignorance of the world and themselves. Their beliefs are superstitious, cruel and out of touch with reality.

    Unfortunately Western civilization romanticises tribalism. But the only place Romantic tribalism ever existed is in the minds of the Romantic West.

    The only important thing about tribalism is how to get out of it. And the answer is surprisingly simple - literacy.

    But literacy requires that every child be compelled by law to leave their family and tribe and go to a special institution called, "School", to learn to read and write.

    Unfortunately you only get universal law after you get universal literacy - so for tribalists, this is Catch 22.

    Fortunately for the tribalists the universally literate West is forcing literacy upon them.

    The illiterate world is confronting the literate world and we see this starkly in Afghanistan.

    And the illiterate world will only be overcome by force majeure, just as our children are forced to go to school.

    But of course the facts of life are too difficult to bear without romanticising them.
    You would make a horrible anthropologist.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by chooi View Post
    You would make a horrible anthropologist.
    I'm sure, for we resolutely see the world through the eyes of the Enlightenment.

    And the Enlightenment gave us universal literacy, so we look at spoken cultures, illiterate cultures, through the prism of print.

    And spoken cultures hear us through the prism of the voice and ear.

    So we might say that we look at spoken cultures through the eye, while they hear us through the ear.

    We are a visual culture, while they are an aural culture.

  10. #110
    Senior Member chooi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    We are a visual culture, while they are an aural culture.
    I do agree that we are a very visual culture. In fact, Edmund Carpenter has very interesting things to say on the subject.

    So are you suggesting that literate Western culture is superior to "sexist", "barbarian" tribalism, as you put it? They are "ignorant of the world"? "Out of touch with reality"?

    The arrogance of the modern self in dealing with traditional knowledge is a very dangerous thing. So "we" (I will take this moment to speak for everyone as you have) know better than these "superstitious" barbarians? We know better than thousands upon thousands of environmental and biological influence on their culture? I suggest you read up on attempts to "educate" the Balinese and reform their subaks.

    "We" must save these savages from themselves? We, who are facing a global climate crisis, which we have caused? We, who have allowed countless gallons of oil to flood the Gulf of Mexico? We, who invented weapons of mass destruction, which are no doubt a great improvement on the bows and axes of old? We, whose own superstition is the cult of the free market and unchecked economic growth? "We" are the planet's salvation? My dearest Victor speak for yourself.

    There are problems within all cultures. Ours is not excluded. In many cases our problems are worse. You suggest that we free the barbarians from themselves by enslaving them with what we believe is right? We need to give them literacy? Let's look at the case of the Native Americans, since they've been brought up. I'm sure they appreciate our efforts to enrich their lives. "We" are using sarcasm here for our information.

    But alas, "we" are getting off subject.

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