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  1. #11
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    @jock

    what does this mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    It’s bizarre: what my mind tells me about someone is precisely the kind of information that is useless in terms of facilitating connection.
    My mind is very critical. Recall my post on Ti being the worst social function there is. It strips away what it considers the meaningless excess, depersonalizes, and ignores the specific manifestation of data in order to appreciate the fundamental rule or law that produces that data. The problem is, what makes socialization work and run so smoothly, are exactly what Ti usually discards as relatively shallow and meaningless. Not saying that that's what they are, just that Ti thinks they are. So, if someone says something to me, I don't really take what is said at face value, I'm immediately wondering why they said it, what is the underlying reason why this person is talking to me in the first place. So, this leads to me just picking apart things like appearance, word usage, body language instead of just...you know...listening to what they have to say. So, instead of remembering personal details about a person that I can use to connect with that person with, [if I were so inclined, which I usually am not] I notice they hunch their shoulders a bit defensively, as if to hide something; they use the word "like" a lot; they stutter; their "a's" are bizarrely drawn out, they must use that time to think; they rub their hands on their pants, etc. So I ignore content, and pay attention to structure. If I ever voice these observations it comes across as, naturally, dehumanizing and the other person feeling as though they've just been probed and dissected.

    So, yeah. Madness.



  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    My mind is very critical. Recall my post on Ti being the worst social function there is. It strips away what it considers the meaningless excess, depersonalizes, and ignores the specific manifestation of data in order to appreciate the fundamental rule or law that produces that data. The problem is, what makes socialization work and run so smoothly, are exactly what Ti usually discards as relatively shallow and meaningless. Not saying that that's what they are, just that Ti thinks they are. So, if someone says something to me, I don't really take what is said at face value, I'm immediately wondering why they said it, what is the underlying reason why this person is talking to me in the first place. So, this leads to me just picking apart things like appearance, word usage, body language instead of just...you know...listening to what they have to say. So, instead of remembering personal details about a person that I can use to connect with that person with, [if I were so inclined, which I usually am not] I notice they hunch their shoulders a bit defensively, as if to hide something; they use the word "like" a lot; they stutter; their "a's" are bizarrely drawn out, they must use that time to think; they rub their hands on their pants, etc. So I ignore content, and pay attention to structure.
    Do you play with these things though when you open up to someone and do them just for fun. Kinda like reversing and playing with these things?
    Im out, its been fun

  3. #13
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    Do you play with these things though when you open up to someone and do them just for fun. Kinda like reversing and playing with these things?
    Sure. It's just that getting to that point is difficult, and usually requires my friend to persevere through some initial awkwardness barriers to get there.



  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    Sure. It's just that getting to that point is difficult, and usually requires my friend to persevere through some initial awkwardness barriers to get there.
    Sucks to be an I
    Im out, its been fun

  5. #15
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    but it's done without value judgment placed on it? or do you decide how you feel about them based on it? is it mostly negative things you see...or do you conclude their reasoning for doing such behaviors is negative?
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  6. #16
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    but it's done without value judgment placed on it? or do you decide how you feel about them based on it? is it mostly negative things you see...or do you conclude their reasoning for doing such behaviors is negative?
    No value judgments. Just observations. How I feel about them isn't really a question that comes up. I will "like them" or "not like them" based on things like humor and disposition, what the things they say imply about their minds. Once again, structure over content.

    I maintain that it is not negative...just critical, although if verbalized it can be interpreted that way I suppose. I dissect to understand. Not to position myself above or below them. Trust me, because if I did, I'd probably find myself lacking every time



  7. #17
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    okay...i can see that. it comes from just trying to understand...i do that to...but it's more of a probing of their emotional state..their reactions and motivations and where i think they came from...ha...interesting...and it's not about placing judgment either.

    actually...i try to dissect what people are thinking too...i guess it's just that filling in the holes of what they're actually saying haha
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    No value judgments. Just observations. How I feel about them isn't really a question that comes up. I will "like them" or "not like them" based on things like humor and disposition, what the things they say imply about their minds. Once again, structure over content.

    I maintain that it is not negative...just critical, although if verbalized it can be interpreted that way I suppose. I dissect to understand. Not to position myself above or below them. Trust me, because if I did, I'd probably find myself lacking every time
    Im out, its been fun

  9. #19
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    An INTP I know (he's traveled around the world) said for the most part, people will react pleasantly to you if you're generally agreeable and nice (not going going out of way to correct people on every little thing or making people feel inferior, etc.) to people. I think that will go a long way even if you may be socially awkward.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    My mind is very critical. Recall my post on Ti being the worst social function there is. It strips away what it considers the meaningless excess, depersonalizes, and ignores the specific manifestation of data in order to appreciate the fundamental rule or law that produces that data. The problem is, what makes socialization work and run so smoothly, are exactly what Ti usually discards as relatively shallow and meaningless. Not saying that that's what they are, just that Ti thinks they are. So, if someone says something to me, I don't really take what is said at face value, I'm immediately wondering why they said it, what is the underlying reason why this person is talking to me in the first place. So, this leads to me just picking apart things like appearance, word usage, body language instead of just...you know...listening to what they have to say. So, instead of remembering personal details about a person that I can use to connect with that person with, [if I were so inclined, which I usually am not] I notice they hunch their shoulders a bit defensively, as if to hide something; they use the word "like" a lot; they stutter; their "a's" are bizarrely drawn out, they must use that time to think; they rub their hands on their pants, etc. So I ignore content, and pay attention to structure. If I ever voice these observations it comes across as, naturally, dehumanizing and the other person feeling as though they've just been probed and dissected.

    So, yeah. Madness.
    I think the bolded is a key point in one of the differences between ISTP and INTP. I dont generally pay attention to or care why a person is talking to me and I dont go much into the detail. Instead of going inward I go outward and begin cross referencing things, connecting it to all the other things around me that I have experienced. I dont stay within that person, I kinda pull that person into my understanding and experiences. So instead of "connecting" its more like "cross-referencing".

    edit: To explain a bit more, I dont really focus on the detail in regards to what I cross refernce, I focus on the "cross reference" itself.
    Im out, its been fun

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