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  1. #1
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Default Or it is just the Forer effect at work ...

    I had a full astrology chart done, back in 2005 actually, from Liz Greene's site Psychological Horoscope Analysis - Astrodienst. (This is in no way an endorsement, but in the interest of full disclosure, there you have it.)

    It's about 25 pages in length, and too long and personal really to divulge fully here; but I was interested to see how many people would self-identify with some excerpts from my profile. A couple are pretty general from the overview, and a couple are more specific and deeper in the report.

    Following are 5 paragraphs, which I shall number accordingly.

    Rate on a scale of 1 - 4, 1 being "I don't agree with this at all" and 4 meaning "I agree with this fully" to the degree that you feel the particular excerpt describes (or does not describe) you.

    Please add any of your extra thoughts too to the mix.

    -----

    Paragraph 1: Romantic vision and a rich imagination

    You are one of life's true romantics, because your reality is the inner world of fantasy and imagination. The limitations of daily life can bore you, and you try at every available opportunity to inject into mundane situations a note of the mythic and the meaningful. However, your romanticism is constantly being challenged by another side of your personality: your fear of disruption to your material security. Although you dislike being tied to routines which seem inconsequential and stifling, life perpetually intrudes upon your dreams, forcing you into conflict between your vision and your practical limitations and needs.

    -----

    Paragraph(s) 2: The struggle against banality and mundane limits

    If you attempt to live entirely in your imagination, you may run the risk of losing your connection with ordinary life - and with it, the capacity for contentment. Because of your resentment of boredom and routine, you may secretly yearn for an alternative life which is more glamourous, exciting or meaningful - without actually doing anything concrete about your craving for wider horizons. You also dislike having to select one thing to which you must apply yourself, preferring to live in a kind of provisional world - the "one day when I grow up..." syndrome, where all possibilities remain open to you. Yet if you pursue this approach to life exclusively, you will, with the passing of the years, feel increasingly unreal, as though you have somehow wasted your potentials and accomplished nothing solid in the end.

    Another manifestation of your conflict between the romantic, mystic realm and the hard world of facts and objects is your complex relationship with your own body, which often seems mysterious and frightening and which you may periodically neglect. You may resent having to fill your time with tasks like servicing the car and doing the monthly accounts, not to mention the dentist and the doctor; but your lack of attention to worldly and instinctual matters can result in constant irritations with mechanical objects breaking down, and also in problems with your health - not because you are intrinsically unhealthy, but because you tend to be sporadic in your care of your own body. You tend to swing between excessive and punishing diets and exercise routines to "master" the body, and times when you are not even aware that it exists.

    -----

    Paragraph 3: The power of reason combines with the gift of fantasy

    You possess unusual intellectual gifts to support and enhance your rich imagination. You may be a profound thinker, with a grasp of higher and broader concepts and an intuitive feeling for symbols and connections between systems of thought. Your imagination, although powerful and constantly active, never runs wild into chaos, but is always supported by clear rational thought. Therefore, you are one of those rare people who are not only able to leap to conclusions through the uncanny irrational power of the intuition, but can also explain yourself with a logical and coherent structure of thought.

    -----

    Paragraph 4: A hidden need for solitude

    Your identity is closely bound with your feeling of usefulness to humanity in which you believe so strongly; and although sooner or later life will challenge you on the issue of who you really are when you are not fulfilling this role, you are likely to be happiest and most creative if you know your life has offered something to someone other than yourself. ... In contrast to this sociable, articulate and outgoing qualities of your personality, there is a hidden side in you which is not the humanitarian and humanist that you are, for this part of you actively dislikes people, preferring solitude and quiet, and finding a group of more than three rather strenuous, irritating and even boring. It is hard for you to express this antisocial shadow, for this might mean offending others by withdrawing too harshly from them; and it would mean questioning your belief that the welfare of others is more important than your own.

    -----

    Paragraph 5: An experience of emotional alienation

    The subjective image of your father which is portrayed in your birth horoscope is a potent and ambivalent one. A feeling of alienation coloured your relatioship with him - either because of a physical separation, or because you experienced his personality as too detached, intellectual, cool or unresponsive to allow you to get close to him. He probably encouraged your intellectual development, while remaining aloof from your emotional and physical need of him, and you therefore may have felt rejected on a deep personal level. His high standards of achievement and perfection and his lack of regard for your ordinary, human needs - esepcially those of affection and warmth - have exercised a powerful unconscious influence on your own values. Although your relationship with your father may have contained difficult elements, there is also a powerful attachment to him indicated in your birth horoscope, and it is likely that he, more than your mother, represented safety and security to you in your childhood.
    Last edited by PeaceBaby; 05-23-2010 at 06:05 PM. Reason: title change
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  2. #2
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    2, 4 and 5 are full of the Forer Effect. 2 is a poster boy for it, 4 gets all but the most extroverted and 5 is a conflict most deal with.

    Everyone loves to think they are 3, so they usually will, but 1 is quite specific in some regards.

    I identify near completely with all but 3, which I don't like to confirm or deny because I know my own bias will be all over it.

  3. #3
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    Paragraph 1:3/4
    Paragraph 2:2/4
    Paragraph 3:1/4
    Paragraph 4:4/4
    Paragraph 5:1/4

    Definitely something very Forer there....'Although you seem ____, you are aware of your tendency towards *opposite*' made up loads of those phrases.

    Edit: It's possible that someone who didn't know about Forer would give you a better idea because they'll read it slightly differently, as in the original experiment

  4. #4
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Thanks erm and FHDK.

    I am looking for the depth of connection people feel to the paragraphs, regardless of Forer constructs.

    In other words, I am not looking to dissect these so much as see if other people read them and say - AHA, that's just like me (or not like me)!
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  5. #5
    Senior Member BlueGray's Avatar
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    1: 0
    2: 1
    3: 3
    4: 0
    5: 0

    Reminds me why I thought I was completely strange back in middle school. This stuff doesn't cover as much of the population as they like to think.
    Ne > Ti > Si >> Te > Se >> Fe > Fi > Ni
    5 so/sp
    Chaotic Neutral/Evil

  6. #6
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Thanks BlueGray for your time to read through it all, and for your thoughts.

    When I got this one done, my mother was curious to get hers too, and her resulting reading is very different than mine.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  7. #7
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    I had a full astrology chart done, back in 2005 actually, from Liz Greene's site Psychological Horoscope Analysis - Astrodienst. (This is in no way an endorsement, but in the interest of full disclosure, there you have it.)
    That's an interesting site; whatever you think of the subject in general it seems to be one of the most comprehensive astrology resources out there. Given that, this is quite a worthwhile exercise actually. We could reasonably assume that a professional and personalised report from a site like this ought to rate quite highly on the credibility scale, if credibility is to be found.

    One thing that interests me, though, is that the results you've given seem to predict your Mbti type quite strongly, irrespective of what you think of their accuracy in other respects. I'll comment on that a bit: it would be interesting to see how other people's responses relate to their Mbti type.


    Paragraph 1: 4 I think. This paragraph strongly implies Fi.

    Paragraph(s) 2: 2.5 Logically, the issues raised here ought to apply most strongly to N types, maybe INs in particular, so it would be interesting to see if this is reflected in people's responses.

    Paragraph 3: 3 Again, this is very suggestive of IN types, T is implied somewhat more than F now however.

    Paragraph 4: 1.5 or so. I really don't care what anyone thinks of me being sociable, or otherwise, so this is irrelevant. The first part resonates somewhat though. This paragraph seems to suggest an I preference again, with F over T as a secondary. It also implies relatively strong Fe.

    Paragraph 5: Nope. 0 or 1. My parents were separated when I was only a toddler and he died when I was about 7. I really don't remember him all that well, and he certainly didn't have a major effect on my life, even by not being there, in any direct sense. This paragraph seems a little suspect; almost like it's trying to cover as many commonplace "father" experiences as possible.
    Look into my avatar. Look deep into my avatar...

  8. #8
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    Paragraph 1: Romantic vision and a rich imagination
    I would definitely identify with having a hard time paying enough attention to the mundane and real-world limitations. And I'm definitely pretty cautious in the real world (for example financially). I'd say I identify a fair amount with this one. 4/5

    Paragraph(s) 2: The struggle against banality and mundane limits
    Also identify a lot with this one, although more so when younger. I have a better relationship to the physical world and my body these days. Certainly getting on a regular gym schedule has help both ground me, and also helped me better able to deal with daily stressors. Still, while routine maintenance is under control, non-routine maintenance continues to be an uphill battle (for example, home maintenance and repair). 3/5

    Paragraph 3: The power of reason combines with the gift of fantasy
    Also identify a fair amount with this one. Of course, like you, I work in a technical field and have to be able to express myself logically and clearly. While I'm hardly unique, I do feel better equipped than some INFPs to defend myself rationally. I have often felt caught in between the emotional and logical, between the artistic and the technical... without being so gifted in any one area to have an obvious path. 4/5

    Paragraph 4: A hidden need for solitude
    This is less true now than it once way. I would say I'm not so invested in being "useful" to humanity at this point. I still want to be a net positive to the people in my life, and help where I can, but I'm also in touch that I'm uniquely responsible for my own well-being. I also accept my introverted qualities, so work around them rather than feeling like they are inherently bad. So, I would only moderately identify with this one. 2/5

    Paragraph 5: An experience of emotional alienation
    A fair amount here fits really well, but not all of it. My dad didn't push me a lot intellectually, but definitely was emotionally stunted and withdrawn. He definitely has high standards of achievement and is a perfectionist. 4/5


    Overall, I think I'd be impressed with how good a fit the above was (whether that's Forer effect or chance, no idea). Of course, I'm dubious about astrology (at best), and always bring up my identical twin brother who was born 4 minutes before I was. We are fairly different in many ways (and certainly in life path), and I don't see astrology having a good model for that (as well as lacking any coherent causal explanation).

    I could understand a minor effect (at least on the same hemisphere) where seasonal effects could interact with critical developmental periods. For example, if one were house bound in a frigid climate during a period critical for physical motor development, I could see there being a negative correlation with sports. However, anything beyond that I would have a hard time swallowing.

  9. #9
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    This has absolutely nothing to do with the Forer Effect. i opened this thread because of the title and to read a little about the Forer Effect - NOT astrology.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcvcdc View Post
    This has absolutely nothing to do with the Forer Effect. i opened this thread because of the title and to read a little about the Forer Effect - NOT astrology.
    Astrology is in the title. Get it?

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