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  1. #81
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    Actually, my depression is pretty debilitating at times, and combined with panic attacks and anxiety. It's a fact for me, but I don't want people feeling sorry for me, and I hate it when I feel sorry for myself, as well. Life happens, and you got to live it. Got to get up, go to work ect, otherwise you miss the good things in life as well. If I can do it, other people can too. This, I do know, you have to be willing to change yourself internally, before your situation changes. Changing externals helps though. People saying they can't is most of the problem. The battles over right there and then. Nothing can be changed. Life's a bitch, but she can be pretty sweet too.
    GLBT is really not the same thing. It's not a perception, you can't alter brain chemistries to stimulate hetero attraction. You can't alter diet and excersize away the gay. Getting enough sleep doesn't change that you feel like a man in a women's body.
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
    Real life awaits and she is a demanding mistress.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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  3. #83
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireyPheonix View Post
    Actually, my depression is pretty debilitating at times, and combined with panic attacks and anxiety. It's a fact for me, but I don't want people feeling sorry for me, and I hate it when I feel sorry for myself, as well. Life happens, and you got to live it. Got to get up, go to work ect, otherwise you miss the good things in life as well. If I can do it, other people can too. This, I do know, you have to be willing to change yourself internally, before your situation changes. Changing externals helps though. People saying they can't is most of the problem. The battles over right there and then. Nothing can be changed. Life's a bitch, but she can be pretty sweet too.
    GLBT is really not the same thing. It's not a perception, you can't alter brain chemistries to stimulate hetero attraction. You can't alter diet and excersize away the gay. Getting enough sleep doesn't change that you feel like a man in a women's body.
    Again, it's totally awesome how you're dealing with your depression head on.

    But my point was that some people's brains might be wired to not be able to kick depression once it exists beyond a certain point. That could be due to chemistry or some other biological manifestation, so in that way it is like GBLT.
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  4. #84
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    I'd like to put a disclaimer.
    I don't know what it's like for other people. I may wax lyrical about what works, based on my own experiences, but I'm no pysch.
    I apologise for stating my opinions bluntly, but they are just that, opinions. No intention of offending.
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
    Real life awaits and she is a demanding mistress.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  5. #85
    Senior Member tinker683's Avatar
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    Interesting thread. I have several things I'd like to add and I apologize if I come off as being scatter-brained.

    To answer the OP: I think it could but:

    1) Only in the short term
    2) Only with certain types of people

    About Point 1: People who have depression for a prolonged period of time develop a warped perception of reality and as such the longer you have it, the more damage it will do and harder it is to fix cognitively.

    About Point 2: Some people handle it better than others I think. Some people are more attuned or feel their emotions more powerfully than others. While some might be able to detach themselves from their emotions and their situation and be able to objectively try to pin-point what's wrong, others can be overwhelmed by the onslaught of their emotions and truly do become powerless very quickly to stop it.

    Speaking for myself and I'll summarize: I grew up with a lot of negative attitudes about myself and my place in the world and held on to that attitude from the time I was in Kindergarten all the way until high school. Once I reached high school and I got to that point to where teenagers begin figuring themselves out and what it is they want to do and who it is they want to be I looked inside myself and saw....nothing.

    Depression, for me, I think was inevitable given my perspectives but it was most emphatically not something I could have gotten over on my own. Having grown up with these perspectives in mind they were, by the time I reached high school, deeply ingrained into my psyche and indeed was one of the cornerstones by that point in time of how I approached the world. Also, my grandfather has SERIOUS bipolar disorder (to where he had to be committed because he got so delusional) and I understand that mental illnesses can be hereditary so that may have influenced it some.

    So after 2 hospitalizations for my suicidal behavior, and 6 years of therapy that included medication (In the form of Effexor XR and Seroquel), and a *lot* of introspection, I was able to rebuild myself from the ground up and become the person you see posting this today

    I got into an argument once with a person on another message board about whether or not I needed the meds. She told me that I was able to realize these things on my own and that's what got me through it. I had to stop her and end the discussion because my response to her was NO. Just....no. You do not understand where I was then, you can not imagine JUST how far deep into the hole I was..

    It wasn't until I was on the meds that I was able to begin thinking clearly. I tried repeatedly to explain that to her and she just didn't seem to compute that.

    Some people I understand can't take meds because it doesn't work for them or it makes them feel worse and my heart goes out to these folks. To those that can take it though and choose not too...well, the choice is in your hands. Do whatever you feel is right but please remember that you still do have options available.

    The last thing I'd like to comment on is people who take meds and expect them to work like Tylenol: That you just take the medication and suddenly everything will get better. It won't. The meds will either fix whatever is wrong with you or level you off enough to where you can regain some footing but, again, depending on how long you've had depression you have to fix the damage that's been done cognitively. If you'd told yourself forever and ever that you're worthless and that nobody will love you, a pill isn't going to change your mind about that...only you will, once you learned to start telling yourself that you ARE a worthwhile person to be around.

    Anywho, that's my 2 cents. I apologize for being all over the place but I wanted to get all of my thoughts out there.
    Last edited by tinker683; 05-10-2010 at 04:16 PM. Reason: Corrections
    "The man who is swimming against the stream knows the strength of it."
    ― Woodrow Wilson

  6. #86
    Senior Member Little_Sticks's Avatar
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    I don't think depression has any benefit in today's modern world. Out in the wild, if depressed and something wasn't working, I could see it sparking a motivation to leave or change a bad environment in search and hope of finding something better.

    But in the modern world, the Earth is heavily populated and financially regulated. Their often isn't enough resources for all of a society to live healthy purposeful lives and so the majority of people want predictable security to be able to have this, and in doing so, they are willing to subjugate a minority of people to various forms of abuse with Pollyanna principles and the philosophy that if you aren't getting what you need then you aren't working hard or aren't willing to do what is needed to get what you need, even if that's a load of bullshit. And when all those principles and philosophies designed to protect the fat-cats fall flat on their feet, then we call the result a revolution, and fall back to our primal instinctive principles - you take what you can and those who are strong will get what they need. And if you aren't 'strong enough' to take what you need? Then you follow and support the strong who will help you or you die! And we have a cycle.

    And so depression is supposed to alert a person to revolt and reshape their environment. But In this 'modern world' where we have so many bureaucratic obstacles and societal apathy to jump through before we even get the hope of changing anything, depression becomes more of a catch-22, where it let's you know you need to change something, but you're depressed because your attempts to change things constantly fail and all you get are turned noses and excuses from other people about why you fail. So you tweeter between angry desperation and, when tired, a detached, removed state that sees the self's pathetic inability to protect itself as a self-hating and a self-mutilating motivator in a reflection of the way other people see that self as. If a depressed one is lucky to live during a revolution, however, then they will be able to fight for the change they desire. But that rarely happens.

    So am I depressing anyone yet? ;P

  7. #87
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinker683 View Post

    So after 2 hospitalizations for my suicidal behavior, and 6 years of therapy that included medication (In the form of Effexor XR and Seroquel), and a *lot* of introspection, I was able to rebuild myself from the ground up and become the person you see posting this today

    I got into an argument once with a person on another message board about whether or not I needed the meds. She told me that I was able to realize these things on my own and that's what got me through it. I had to stop her and end the discussion because my response to her was NO. Just....no. You do not understand where I was then, you can not imagine JUST how far deep into the hole I was..

    It wasn't until I was on the meds that I was able to begin thinking clearly. I tried repeatedly to explain that to her and she just didn't seem to compute that.

    Some people I understand can't take meds because it doesn't work for them or it makes them feel worse and my heart goes out to these folks. To those that can take it though and choose not too...well, the choice is in your hands. Do whatever you feel is right but please remember that you still do have options available.
    Wow. You have an incredible story. Thanks for sharing all that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Little_Sticks View Post
    I don't think depression has any benefit in today's modern world. Out in the wild, if depressed and something wasn't working, I could see it sparking a motivation to leave or change a bad environment in search and hope of finding something better.

    But in the modern world, the Earth is heavily populated and financially regulated. Their often isn't enough resources for all of a society to live healthy purposeful lives and so the majority of people want predictable security to be able to have this, and in doing so, they are willing to subjugate a minority of people to various forms of abuse with Pollyanna principles and the philosophy that if you aren't getting what you need then you aren't working hard or aren't willing to do what is needed to get what you need, even if that's a load of bullshit. And when all those principles and philosophies designed to protect the fat-cats fall flat on their feet, then we call the result a revolution, and fall back to our primal instinctive principles - you take what you can and those who are strong will get what they need. And if you aren't 'strong enough' to take what you need? Then you follow and support the strong who will help you or you die! And we have a cycle.

    And so depression is supposed to alert a person to revolt and reshape their environment. But In this 'modern world' where we have so many bureaucratic obstacles and societal apathy to jump through before we even get the hope of changing anything, depression becomes more of a catch-22, where it let's you know you need to change something, but you're depressed because your attempts to change things constantly fail and all you get are turned noses and excuses from other people about why you fail. So you tweeter between angry desperation and, when tired, a detached, removed state that sees the self's pathetic inability to protect itself as a self-hating and a self-mutilating motivator in a reflection of the way other people see that self as. If a depressed one is lucky to live during a revolution, however, then they will be able to fight for the change they desire. But that rarely happens.

    So am I depressing anyone yet? ;P
    True, true. This is a bit doomsdayish, which I can definitely appreciate but sometimes is just takes a little tweak here and there, or some hard lessons, and you learn, adapt, and feel happier. There is also something to be said for 'finding your tribe.' There are many, many different ways to live today. It just takes perseverance and fortitude to find the best for each person. But, yes, if someone innately lacks the drive to change their life, I suppose they would be prone to more depressive episodes, and/or elect to go on meds to get through (talking about the people with milder depression).
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  8. #88
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    I think it can be. I think I've been close to depression once in my life, and it certainly triggered a lot of learning and self-discovery and all that. I FEEL like a better person because of it too.

  9. #89
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    Modern day mothering sucks in comparison, so of course all mothers are on antidepressants.
    Hold up a minute. The whole impetus for finding an argument for depression as a "benefit in disguise", is that, according to you, it doesn't make sense to "think that 30-50% of humans have a major disease of the mind".
    Now you're saying that it does make sense because the "modern day" environment "sucks". Which is it? Can't have it both ways.
    How does depression (treated or untreated) benefit these mothers and their children, exactly?

    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    I don't see why saying that the mind is like the body regarding immunity vigor is so dangerous or surprising.
    The mind is not like the body, it is the body. What I found surprising were your wild speculations about "brain morphology" and the types of depression that you think are adaptive and maladaptive. Based on apparently, nothing at all.
    Life circumstances cause depression.
    No, they do not. People are not economies. There is no life circumstance which will invariably produce depression. That's because no life circumstance affects everyone in the same way. People become depressed as a result of the way they think and feel about events that happen to them. There is always a subjective, cognitive component. Otherwise, curing depression would be very easy indeed. Your understanding of the disorder is fundamentally flawed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  10. #90
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    Hold up a minute. The whole impetus for finding an argument for depression as a "benefit in disguise", is that, according to you, it doesn't make sense to "think that 30-50% of humans have a major disease of the mind".
    Now you're saying that it does make sense because the "modern day" environment "sucks". Which is it? Can't have it both ways.
    How does depression (treated or untreated) benefit these mothers and their children, exactly?

    The mind is not like the body, it is the body. What I found surprising were your wild speculations about "brain morphology" and the types of depression that you think are adaptive and maladaptive. Based on apparently, nothing at all.
    No, they do not. People are not economies. There is no life circumstance which will invariably produce depression. That's because no life circumstance affects everyone in the same way. People become depressed as a result of the way they think and feel about events that happen to them. There is always a subjective, cognitive component. Otherwise, curing depression would be very easy indeed. Your understanding of the disorder is fundamentally flawed.

    I was clear, I thought, in my lengthy posts throughout this thread. I suspect you are not reading them in their entirety. Not that I blame you.

    It's not all black and white. I don't think anyone thinks it should be.
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    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


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