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  1. #71
    Senior Member ObliviousExistence's Avatar
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    a new medical study on depression
    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O85H5apA2ns"]scientifically accurate medical study on depression[/YOUTUBE]
    "He was free, free in every way, free to behave like a fool or a machine, free to accept, free to refuse, free to equivocate; to marry, to give up the game, to drag this death weight about with him for years to come. He could do what he liked, no one had the right to advise him, there would be for him no Good or Evil unless he thought them into being." JP Sartre

  2. #72
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Default Our Mates, the Losers.

    Quote Originally Posted by ObliviousExistence View Post
    a new medical study on depression
    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O85H5apA2ns"]scientifically accurate medical study on depression[/YOUTUBE]
    This is only true in a culture that hates losers.

    For, in a culture like mine we love losers.

    We all know that the first casualty of revolution is irony, and so we can't expect a revolutionary culture to see losing in the light of irony. And in such a culture, 'loser' becomes a term of abuse.

    For instance, in our anti-revolutionary and loyal culture our national hero is a loser, Ned Kelly. In fact he lost so badly, we hanged him.

    But one of our most loved painters, Sidney Nolan, has immortalised him in our National Gallery, just click on -

    http://img2.scoop.co.nz/stories/imag...5a1b7a05a.jpeg

    And our national day remembers a terrible lose at Gallipoli against the Turks, immortalised in bronze, just click on -

    http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1315/...c46366.jpg?v=0

    And like John Simpson and his donkey, we look after our mates, even our losers.

  3. #73
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    This thread helped me remember to call my Dr.

  4. #74
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Default We remember the losers.

    We first met the Yankees in the Japanese death camps in South East Asia as prisoners of war.

    The conditions were so extreme they revealed our national characters.

    To our surprise the Yankees set up a capitalist system of bartering and hoarding even though their countrymen were dying and being tortured around them.

    While we set up systems of sharing and looking after our mates.

    And while Yankees were left to die alone, we never let an Aussie mate die alone.

    And not surprisingly our survival rate was considerably higher than the Yankees.

    We particularly remember Sir Edward (Weary) Dunlop, a doctor who devoted himself unstintingly in the most horrific conditions to looking after his mates, and have immortalised him in bronze, just click on -

    http://www.melbourneunirugby.com/wp-...8/10/weary.jpg

    and his mates -

    http://www.louislaumen.com/weary%20dunlop%201996.jpg

  5. #75
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    Are you off your rocker? Is it a joke or are you serious with this stuff? You realize this was a conversation about depression? How does anyone take you seriously?

  6. #76
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by durentu View Post
    Dr Seligman (credentials: Martin Seligman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) states that in the history of mental illness, only 14 are treatable, and only 2 are curable. the DSM-IV lists over 350 mental disorders. And their definition of mental disorder in their introduction is very dubious. The DSM is a great work of fiction.

    Do not get confused in the linguistics. Mental disorder is not a disease. No amount of behaviors used as diagnostic criteria in DSM can ever be a disease. You can fake a mental disorder, but you cannot fake a disease. Why? objective tests.

    During slavery, drapetomania was a valid psychological diagnosis. Drapetomania was a mental disorder that made slave run away from their owners.

    I take the viewpoint of Albert Ellis and his REBT. It's one's belief system that changes behaviors. And all mental illnesses are based on diagnosing behaviors. No drugs needed, just change your beliefs. The concept is that simple, but it's hard to do. This is life.

    "There is no such thing as mental illness, only varying degrees of irresponsibility" - Thomas Szasz


    Clinical depression is a marketing term used by pharmaceuticals to push sales of their drugs. Psychologists will agree that there is absolutely no solid scientific evidence of mental disorders and they cannot explain why a 'disorder' is found in the population in excess of 5%. I read numbers from 20-60%.

    If you need the drugs, you can get them. They can help to stop a terminal episodes like suicide by short circuiting the brain. Then ask, what does a successful depression treatment/cure look like? If you're going to fight, it's best to know what you're fighting.

    Psychology is in its infancy. The DSM reflects that. Until we really understand the nuances of the mind in all capacities, we will not really understand mental illness.
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

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  7. #77
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    Evolution won't weed out depression unless it prevents you ever having and raising children.
    so true. But seriously, in tribes I don't think mothers had it quite so hard because help was everywhere and some raised kids, while others cooked, kids played together all the time, women talked and laughed and shared. Modern day mothering sucks in comparison, so of course all mothers are on antidepressants.

    It's probably not that depression was an advantage it just wasn't enough of a disadvantage to be weeded out.

    It's not about survival of the fittest but survival of the fit enough.
    Good point. Some depression helps, but some hinders. Some people are able to rebuff, others plunge down deep and can't recover. Evolution doesn't account for modern day needs, so we carry into present day adaptations that don't jive with current life. It is important to learn how to cull those normal depressive episodes that could help us from those who have debilitating depressive episodes that need drugs or other more intensive therapies to function and live a good life.

    Some people have evolved that can't bear children. Infertile couples comprise 7-30% of the population, depending on age. Those that are infertile can choose to work around their infertility, and accept it; or take drugs to fix it.

    Humans' biological abilities are not always going to approximate modern day demands or desires. Having regard for understanding this grey area is extremely important lest we lever some newer treatment, and create more harm than good.
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    ~Torah observant, Christ inspired~
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    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  8. #78
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    The ones who cannot spontaneously ruminate and 'get over' their depression in a reasonable amount of time must also have some sort of brain morphology that is not very conducive to mental well-being, that most of us possess; a deficit of some sort in protecting against normal psychological trauma or negative experiences. In which case, they might only be helped by medications. Just as some people with immuno compromised immune systems need help with medications from time to time.
    Rumination isn't exactly spontaneous, IMHO. I think it's a learned behaviour, but my point is it's really easy to get trapped in a downward spiral. I do think getting over it or through it has no biological basis either. Again I believe that is also a learned behaviour. You have to go through it to understand, and learn what works for you. I had to go to a pysch, but I also researched it and learned by trail and error. I also had to learn to the signs for my self of an impending depressive episode. I'm not against medication per say, but I'd say people are over medicated these days. It's not good to spend your days numb.
    Basically, it comes down to resources, and support networks in the end. Also accepting the fact that you can't be delirously happy 100% of the time either.
    Truth be told the fact that it's considered a disorder is a reflection on our society and it's values, i.e. you should only take a certain amount of time to mourn the passing of a loved one, or a break-up of a relationship.
    Other examples are you shouldn't be depressed by winter, and you should be happy after child birth, not stressed out of your head.
    It's considered abnormal if you show any signs of being sad.
    It's the very supression of natural emotion cycles. I'm not claiming it's okay to be emo all the time, but even the most unemotional person needs time to process emotions.
    However, I do not think depression is an evolutionary advantage. Discontentment, sadness, perhaps are, but I think those natural feelings get lopped in with depression.
    If you are not happy, change. If you can't change the situation, branch out, learn, seek new opinions and view points, reframe. There are free resources. Nothing is permenant. If you need medication take it, but don't use it as a way to avoid realities. Altering expectations helps too. Changes don't happen overnight most of the time. Above all, get your self checked out by a doctor. Some times it's some thing else.
    I'm not unsympathetic, but I've known people who swallow the pills, and still do nothing to alter thier situations. They just stay put, hoping some one else will provide the solution. I don't see that as advantageous at all. Ditto feeling suicidal, and I have been there quite a few times myself. Offing your self before you have kids, is contrary to evolution.
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
    Real life awaits and she is a demanding mistress.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  9. #79
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    One of R.D.Laing's patients said she just wanted to scream. So he said, why don't just do it?

    So Laing set up a refuge in the heart of London, where his patients could scream if they wanted to.

  10. #80
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireyPheonix;1156283I
    do think getting over it or through it has no biological basis either. Again I believe that is also a learned behaviour. You have to go through it to understand, and learn what works for you. I had to go to a pysch, but I also researched it and learned by trail and error. I also had to learn to the signs for my self of an impending depressive episode. I'm not against medication per say, but I'd say people are over medicated these days. It's not good to spend your days numb.
    Basically, it comes down to resources, and support networks in the end. Also accepting the fact that you can't be delirously happy 100% of the time either.
    Truth be told the fact that it's considered a disorder is a reflection on our society and it's values, i.e. you should only take a certain amount of time to mourn the passing of a loved one, or a break-up of a relationship.
    Other examples are you shouldn't be depressed by winter, and you should be happy after child birth, not stressed out of your head.
    It's considered abnormal if you show any signs of being sad.
    It's the very supression of natural emotion cycles. I'm not claiming it's okay to be emo all the time, but even the most unemotional person needs time to process emotions.
    However, I do not think depression is an evolutionary advantage. Discontentment, sadness, perhaps are, but I think those natural feelings get lopped in with depression.
    If you are not happy, change. If you can't change the situation, branch out, learn, seek new opinions and view points, reframe. There are free resources. Nothing is permenant. If you need medication take it, but don't use it as a way to avoid realities. Altering expectations helps too. Changes don't happen overnight most of the time. Above all, get your self checked out by a doctor. Some times it's some thing else.
    I'm not unsympathetic, but I've known people who swallow the pills, and still do nothing to alter thier situations. They just stay put, hoping some one else will provide the solution. I don't see that as advantageous at all. Ditto feeling suicidal, and I have been there quite a few times myself. Offing your self before you have kids, is contrary to evolution.
    Just to play devil's advocate here, you are one of the ones who obviously pulled out of it though, for numerous reasons, but basically because you did, you could. Some evidently can't. They say they can't; they say they've tried everything.

    Do we tell someone who asserts that they really are a GBLT that it's really just because they aren't trying hard enough not to be? No, because we have to respect their own point of view and experience in that.

    I think your response is awesome though. It points anecdotally to even moderate depression being amenable to lifestyle changes, which is very encouraging.
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    ~Torah observant, Christ inspired~
    Life Path 11

    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


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