Our Little Wars Here

[Mole]

Wars are very important because in wars we forget ourselves and reveal our true selves.

All that is needed is to call an armistice and analyse, evaluate and critique what has been revealed.

Wars are similar to the imagination in that in both we forget ourselves for a while and allow our true selves to come out to play.

And so wars and the imagination are only half the story without analysis, evaluation and critique.

 

[Aleksei]

Wars allow you to blow shit up. Wooo!

 

[Craft]

What if we don't have "true selves" nor "selves, what if we are impassive?

 

[sculpting]

Is this really our true self? I would suggest instead that in a time of war, we would merge into some sort of social, nameless, faceless aggregate and be much more likely to follow the herd?

I would assume that in a society under stress-ie resource limitation-standing alone as an individual is not a good idea-thus we would abandon ourselves more fully?

 

[BlueScreen]

I've had wars on my mind for the last week. Might have been ANZAC day and all. It's seemed like a real idea this week rather than a distant concept which I'll never face.

I think I understood why it matters so much that we remember them. I always thought it was all about respect for those who fought, and honouring those who served the country when we needed them. But we attach the line "Lest we forget" to the end of the ode of remembrance. That line changes a tribute into a lesson or a warning. It isn't "please don't forget", or "we'll never forget them", or anything cheesy like that. It sums up the impending Armageddon we'll face when we forget. As the veterans die off and we no longer have the marches, as the history becomes a smaller and less relevant part of the school curriculum, as we escape any understanding of the true horror they faced and any feeling of the gravity or seriousness of the situation, we set ourselves up to repeat it. The problem is that it is inevitable. War/peace is a cycle, like summer/winter or growth/recession. To have one too long sets the world in a state where it eventually chooses the other.

 

[ragashree]

It sums up the impending Armageddon we'll face when we forget. As the veterans die off and we no longer have the marches, as the history becomes a smaller and less relevant part of the school curriculum, as we escape any understanding of the true horror they faced and any feeling of the gravity or seriousness of the situation, we set ourselves up to repeat it. The problem is that it is inevitable. War/peace is a cycle, like summer/winter or growth/recession. To have one too long sets the world in a state where it eventually chooses the other.

Unfortunately this appears all too true. We're going through it now with the reprisal of the Vietnam situation in the Middle East, the lessons learned apparantly having only been kept in remembrance as long as it took a generation who hadn't actually experienced the horror and futility for themselves (aka, Dubya and his cronies) to take over the reins of power.

I do find it particularly ironic that wars throughout the course of human history have inevitably been rationalised in the name of Peace by those with something to gain from them - and that the majority of those with little to gain and much to lose (ie their lives, comforts, and liberty) are ever-willing to accept this argument without noticing its inherent absurdity. If the current state is peace, and that is something inherently desirable, what is to be gained from upsetting it with war? At best an eventual resumption of the present situation, after much has been lost and rebuilt, until it is time for the next war. Peace is a desire that can never be truly fulfilled, unless, perhaps, that fulfilment begins deep within each individual self.

 

[Mole]

Is this really our true self? I would suggest instead that in a time of war, we would merge into some sort of social, nameless, faceless aggregate and be much more likely to follow the herd?

I would assume that in a society under stress-ie resource limitation-standing alone as an individual is not a good idea-thus we would abandon ourselves more fully?

I was referring to the war in the Astrology thread - our little war.

 

[Mole]

I've had wars on my mind for the last week. Might have been ANZAC day and all. It's seemed like a real idea this week rather than a distant concept which I'll never face.

I think I understood why it matters so much that we remember them. I always thought it was all about respect for those who fought, and honouring those who served the country when we needed them. But we attach the line "Lest we forget" to the end of the ode of remembrance. That line changes a tribute into a lesson or a warning. It isn't "please don't forget", or "we'll never forget them", or anything cheesy like that. It sums up the impending Armageddon we'll face when we forget. As the veterans die off and we no longer have the marches, as the history becomes a smaller and less relevant part of the school curriculum, as we escape any understanding of the true horror they faced and any feeling of the gravity or seriousness of the situation, we set ourselves up to repeat it. The problem is that it is inevitable. War/peace is a cycle, like summer/winter or growth/recession. To have one too long sets the world in a state where it eventually chooses the other.

ANZAC is a legend and it is our legend. And our legends tell us an awful lot about ourselves because we choose them to define ourselves.

We thought and even hoped in the 70s that the ANZAC legend would disappear, but it has been taken up by the younger generation, and so plainly it speaks to all of us.

What we need to do is find out what it says.

 

[Mole]

What if we don't have "true selves" nor "selves, what if we are impassive?

Well it is true that the individual self is a product of literacy, and that the new electronic media are creating a new tribal self.

So if you are impassive perhaps you are responding to the electronic media.

 

[Tamske]

I don't believe in a "true self". People act out all sorts of roles in different situations and are a compound of all these actions. War is just one of these situations.
Why would the "self" during wartime be more "true" than the "self" during peace-time?

 

[Virtual ghost]

I don't believe in a "true self". People act out all sorts of roles in different situations and are a compound of all these actions. War is just one of these situations.
Why would the "self" during wartime be more "true" than the "self" during peace-time?

Perhaps because the person is a warmonger ? So he/she must hide it during periods of peace. (just a thought)

 

[Betty Blue]

I was referring to the war in the Astrology thread - our little war.

I was going to ask you whom you were referring to, befor i saw the above little clue

 

[Mole]

I was going to ask you whom you were referring to, befor i saw the above little clue

Yes, I think a better title would have been, "Our Little Wars Here".

And I think they are important. I think they are important because they occur so regularly, but at the same time we deplore them.

So they serve some psycho-social function.

And we can break the loop of deploring and fighting by reframing.

So perhaps if we see our little wars as a data set to explore. Not of course to continue the war by finding someone to blame, but rather to see what the data reveals.

 

[Betty Blue]

And I think they are important. I think they are important because they occur so regularly, but at the same time we deplore them.

I think we also enjoy them, unless they become very nasty, and some enjoy the nastiness too. I think i am understanding your drift but correct me if i am mistaken.

So they serve some psycho-social function.

Agreed.

And we can break the loop of deploring and fighting by reframing.

Online therapy? That would be very interesting but rather difficult.

So perhaps if we see our little wars as a data set to explore. Not of course to continue the war by finding someone to blame, but rather to see what the data reveals.

Ha, brilliant. Psychoanalyzing online personas based on the texts of their arguments? Do you think you could do it Victor?

 

[sculpting]

Yes, I think a better title would have been, "Our Little Wars Here".

And I think they are important. I think they are important because they occur so regularly, but at the same time we deplore them.

So they serve some psycho-social function.

And we can break the loop of deploring and fighting by reframing.

So perhaps if we see our little wars as a data set to explore. Not of course to continue the war by finding someone to blame, but rather to see what the data reveals.

Interestingly I find I fight many of the same Fi/Ti wars seen here with my own ENTP best friend but we tend to have a few weeks jump on you guys. This morning i decided I was never going to speak to her again after we had a Ti/Fi war over another entp not understanding the concept of "throwing people under the bus" and abusing my manufacturing personnel with their "endless possibilities"-for manufacturing an ISO regulated product. BAD BAD BAD ENTP. NO POSSIBILITIES. FOLLOW THE RULES.

She said she wasnt the right person to talk the issue over with as she wanted all Fi users to go jump off cliffs with our big googly eyes so we would "shut the fuck up and quit whining ". I explained that she insulted my integrity and sense of responsibility to not abuse the shit out of others via a need to make myself look good. Thankfully as I composed her a hate email, I then spun off into Ne land with some really cool new theories, so I wasnt mad by the end of the email anymore. But I sent it anyways with the new theories included. We made up in the parking lot, by bitching about an ISFJ and her telling me I needed to quit worrying about how other people feel and me explaining that how they "feel" directly impacts their productivity and efficiency as THEY are a bunch of "god damned Te users". So it goes.

I think wars are okay-but in confined areas and with rules-because are they really wars or are they ways in which learning and assimilation of new ideas occurs?

for V

 

[Mole]

I think we also enjoy them, unless they become very nasty, and some enjoy the nastiness too. I think i am understanding your drift but correct me if i am mistaken.

Online therapy? That would be very interesting but rather difficult.

Ha, brilliant. Psychoanalyzing online personas based on the texts of their arguments? Do you think you could do it Victor?

I think the time for analysing individuals is long since past, for we are creating here an electronic tribe, an etribe, in the global village.

Whether we like it or not, whether we are aware of it or not, our individuality is merging into the etribe with every post.

Focusing on the personality of the individual is simply an anaesthetic to put our critical minds to sleep so that the internet can perform a deep and fundamental operation on us.

Typology Central is the operating theatre and there we are anaesthetized upon the table, oblivious to the fact that we are being transformed into an Avatar.

This operation has been made quite explicit in the movie we have all seen, called, "Avatar".

So here we are post-op, our old individuality stripped away, revealing all of us as Avatars - Avatars of the global village.

Pleased to meet you GemPOPGem.

 

[Mole]

Interestingly I find I fight many of the same Fi/Ti wars seen here with my own ENTP best friend but we tend to have a few weeks jump on you guys. This morning i decided I was never going to speak to her again after we had a Ti/Fi war over another entp not understanding the concept of "throwing people under the bus" and abusing my manufacturing personnel with their "endless possibilities"-for manufacturing an ISO regulated product. BAD BAD BAD ENTP. NO POSSIBILITIES. FOLLOW THE RULES.

She said she wasnt the right person to talk the issue over with as she wanted all Fi users to go jump off cliffs with our big googly eyes so we would "shut the fuck up and quit whining ". I explained that she insulted my integrity and sense of responsibility to not abuse the shit out of others via a need to make myself look good. Thankfully as I composed her a hate email, I then spun off into Ne land with some really cool new theories, so I wasnt mad by the end of the email anymore. But I sent it anyways with the new theories included. We made up in the parking lot, by bitching about an ISFJ and her telling me I needed to quit worrying about how other people feel and me explaining that how they "feel" directly impacts their productivity and efficiency as THEY are a bunch of "god damned Te users". So it goes.

I think wars are okay-but in confined areas and with rules-because are they really wars or are they ways in which learning and assimilation of new ideas occurs?

for V

Yes they are wars in which we learn and assimilate new ideas.

And as you show so well here, they can be warm and friendly and fun, just like you.

And they can be part of a friendship which we enjoy for its own sake.

Just as you enjoy writing for its own sake, and effortlessly please us all.

Some of us have the gift for friendship, and some of us are given Dale Carnegie's book, "How to Make Friends and Influence People", at an early age.

I couldn't see anything in Dale's book but I do see a lot in you.

How nice to hear from you.

 

[sculpting]

Yes they are wars in which we learn and assimilate new ideas.

And as you show so well here, they can be warm and friendly and fun, just like you.

And they can be part of a friendship which we enjoy for its own sake.

Just as you enjoy writing for its own sake, and effortlessly please us all.

Some of us have the gift for friendship, and some of us are given Dale Carnegie's book, "How to Make Friends and Influence People", at an early age.

I couldn't see anything in Dale's book but I do see a lot in you.

How nice to hear from you.

Victor my sweet, I do sometimes disagree with you, but I enjoy "feeling" the Fi in your thoughts as it helps me see my own internally and remember to listen to it. By seeing you use it to judge situations it helps me see how to use Fi to judge things myself. INFPs are very wise, even when we disagree

I think Fi can observe the wars and find them unsettling-yet you are very correct that their are innate cycles at play-with each involved learning and growing into different directions, into different paths mentally and emotionally.

 

[Halla74]

I'm at war with folk typology!

 

[sculpting]

I'm at war with folk typology!

Is that like folk music? I prefer chicken typology! with gravy please!