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View Poll Results: Do you believe in astrology?

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  • Yes

    33 18.13%
  • No

    142 78.02%
  • I have no idea what it is? So I'm not sure.

    7 3.85%
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  1. #441
    Senior Member Lex Talionis's Avatar
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    There is a difference between accepting the possibility of behaviours altering in accord with moon cycles, and believing that the stars hold the key that will reveal one's destiny.

    Clearly, it is not unlikely that moon cycles may affect the human psyche, since living organisms have evolved around the cycles of the moon, sun, and Earth. Some animals (nocturnal) are definitely more active during the night, and use the moon for guidance. Chronobiology is the field that studies the adaptation of organisms to solar and lunar cycles.
    "Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily."
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  2. #442
    Senior Member Lex Talionis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InsatiableCuriosity View Post
    There is always possibility They may exist in someone else's reality and, without proof I could not dismiss them but would rather look at why someone believes that they are there??

    In this life I think the only absolutes must be qualified by what we as individuals know and understand now, based on our experience to date - the rest is open to speculation.
    There are no "alternate" realities (mind you, alternate universes would not be alternate realities), unless you wish to entrench yourself into some philosophical bunker whose logic cannot be falsified and does not enlighten or further discussion; for example, solipsism. You and I can agree that the material world contains objects which we can both perceive to either equal or lesser extent, and if I were to claim the existence of an object or phenomena which you have never witnessed, or have not found a reasonable basis for finding validity in my statement, then you would be justified in remaining skeptical in the face of my claims.

    There are individuals, of course, who claim to see and hear what the rest of us cannot, and we usually diagnose such individuals as suffering from schizophrenia or other hallucinatory disorders.
    "Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily."
    —Bonaparte

  3. #443
    Senior Member InsatiableCuriosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Talionis View Post
    There are no "alternate" realities (mind you, alternate universes would not be alternate realities), unless you wish to entrench yourself into some philosophical bunker whose logic cannot be falsified and does not enlighten or further discussion; for example, solipsism. You and I can agree that the material world contains objects which we can both perceive to either equal or lesser extent, and if I were to claim the existence of an object or phenomena which you have never witnessed, or have not found a reasonable basis for finding validity in my statement, then you would be justified in remaining skeptical in the face of my claims.

    There are individuals, of course, who claim to see and hear what the rest of us cannot, and we usually diagnose such individuals as suffering from schizophrenia or other hallucinatory disorders.
    Touche - well said
    "Study hard what interests you the most in the most undisciplined, irreverent and original manner possible."
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    "Never tell a person a thing is impossible. G*d/the Universe may have been waiting all this time for someone ignorant enough of the impossibility to do just that thing."
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  4. #444
    Member the soulless one's Avatar
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    I keep track of planetary movements and know all about my natal chart and know the system well and can make predictions based on what I know, but honestly, I don't take much stock in it. I believe it about as much as I believe Enneagram and whatnot, but I see less reason to believe it than such personality constructs.

  5. #445
    Senior Member une_autre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragashree View Post
    (etc)

    Do you have anything to add to this discussion beyond truth claims based on circular reasoning?
    You missed the whole point.

  6. #446
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InsatiableCuriosity View Post
    Much of what is being studied about the origin and nature of the Universe in Quantum Mechanics borders on the mystical that we would have dismissed 50 years ago, and would seem to be on the very edges of some of the principles of Astrology.
    Quantum Mechanics is counter-intuitive because the quantum is as small as anything can be. And we are unimaginably bigger than the quantum, and so we can't imagine the quantum, so the quantum is counter-intuitive.

    On the other hand mysticism starts off in not knowing.

    And unfortunately we confuse mysticism, or not knowing, with the counter-intuitive.

    Fortunately we can understand the counter-intuitive, such as Quantum Mechanics or General Relativity, mathematically. But mysticism can't be understood mathematically.

  7. #447
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by une_autre View Post
    You missed the whole point.
    Nope. This has all been covered already, but you obviously didn't read the whole discussion, so I suppose I need to go into more detail. See the posts I just linked back to for a start. Your whole logic is based on the fallacies of circular reasoning, argument from personal incredulity, and denying the antecedent.

    The circular reasoning is where you make a truth claim validated only by your personal belief that astrology is nonsense. The belief is perfectly legitimate in itself, but it does nothing to establish absolute truth, unless you think you have a monopoly on this.

    Do I need to go into the argument from personal incredulity,? All you're saying is that you can't believe it is true, therefore it must not be true. That might work for you, but why on earth should anyone else be convinced? Again, it doesn't constitute a meaningful truth claim.

    The question of whether astrology is valid or useful in any sense is not, as you suppose, soley dependent on whether it is astronomically accurate in the sense that you have defined. In fact, I don't remember a single poster here who is open-minded or at least informed on the subject saying that it is. This is the fallacy of denying the antecedent, because denying one possible cause of a given phemomenon, when alternative explanations may exist, has no bearing on the existence of the phemomenon itself. This is a formal fallacy because it's based on true premises but does not give sound reasons for its conclusion to be accepted.

    Informally, you're presumably supposing that people who accept the possibility are ignorant of astronomy and they must therefore be relying on an explanation which can easily be disproved by science, which is a variant of the strawman fallacy; but I give the formal fallacy more weight because the strawman side of it arises from a simple misunderstanding about how others percieve the issue.
    Look into my avatar. Look deep into my avatar...

  8. #448
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    ragashree... your analysis was partially on (physical pleasure IS awesome!) and partially quite off (I'm not particularly critical of those I love... and I'm queen of the disorganized )

    of course I could have made it easier on you by pointing out that I'm a Leo with a moon in Aries and 4 planets (two sets in conjunction) in Sagitarius
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  9. #449
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    ragashree... your analysis was partially on (physical pleasure IS awesome!) and partially quite off (I'm not particularly critical of those I love... and I'm queen of the disorganized )

    of course I could have made it easier on you by pointing out that I'm a Leo with a moon in Aries and 4 planets (two sets in conjunction) in Sagitarius
    Lol, well, Saggitarius and Aries are both supposed to be highly chaotic and impulsive, so this much influence would be expected to make a difference, as well as venus in first house position being particularly associated with an easy going, self-indulgent quality in relationships. That part of the chart is really meant to be more about personal interaction style than anything deeper. Some of the astrological systems actually give more weight to the position of the moon (because it's associated with emotions) than even the sun, and multiple planets in the same sign (particularly in conjunction with each other, which is supposed to increase the harmonic energy) are going to give that sign a lot of overall influence in the chart.

    Really, we can't even form a good basis for a critique of the system by looking at aspects in isolation due to their potential to be influenced by other aspects. This makes criticism by those who haven't really bothered trying to understand it in detail and are taking issue with specific single aspects rather weak. Maybe it doesn't work, but we still need to be able to make an appropriately nuanced qualitative assessment of how all the different variables integrate with each other.

    I'll try some more specific Virgo rising sign traits anyway, just to see how many apply. Most of them should be present to some significant degree despite the strong influence of the other signs; though obviously we need to watch out for confirmation bias and the blah, blah effect here in trying to determine whether you have them to a notable degree:

    Are you a "helper" or "carer" who likes to do a lot of things for others and is maybe particularly attracted to those who need that help? With regard to the ascendant position and the supposed virgo desire to be of practical service to people, do you tend to employ whatever organisational skills you have in order to help or support others, rather than yourself? Do you use your reason and ability to detach emotionally and focus on practical necessities, enabling you to remain fairly easygoing and flexible in most situations? Do you have a very keen awareness of your own body (more so than most people) and tend to worry a lot about minor ailments, perhaps blowing them out of proportion? Is health, nutrition and exercise generally a big deal for you, other people's as well as your own? Are you a worrier in general, particularly when it comes to thinking about what might go wrong in your social interactions and relationships? In this context in particular, do you notice a lot of details that others are not likely to pick up on? Oh, and where is the position of Mercury? This is also supposed to affect Virgo strongly due to being the ruling planet.
    Look into my avatar. Look deep into my avatar...

  10. #450

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    I don't really believe in it, but I'm about as Libran as you can be IRL.
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

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