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View Poll Results: Do you believe in astrology?

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  • Yes

    33 18.13%
  • No

    142 78.02%
  • I have no idea what it is? So I'm not sure.

    7 3.85%
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  1. #421
    Senior Member Ming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Both magazines and newspapers reflect the misogyny of the whole society.

    I know it is too much to bear to recognise we live in a misogynist society, so we rationalise it to ourselves by quibbling over magazines or newspapers.

    And of course it must be completely unbearable for a woman to recognise she lives in a misogynist society. To survive in such a society, to adapt to such a society, must do terrible things to her mind.

    In a misogynist society women are dependent for love and support on the very people who regard them with contempt in public and treat them with violence in the home.

    So rather than face this unbearable truth, women rationalise.

    And rationalisation, as we know, is a psychological defence mechanism to protect us from a harmful truth.

    And astrology is the prefect form of never ending rationalisation.
    You know what Victor? I think I love you.

  2. #422
    Senior Member InsatiableCuriosity's Avatar
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    In actual fact, speaking in typology terms, there is a greater proportion of the Rational temperament in the male population than in the female population.

    You speak of rational as if it were a disease! That is insulting for all scientists. Don't you think the proving of any theory is rationalising?

    I would be more concerned over the irrational as that gives rise to prejudice and jumping to conclusions.
    "Study hard what interests you the most in the most undisciplined, irreverent and original manner possible."
    — Richard P. Feynman

    "Never tell a person a thing is impossible. G*d/the Universe may have been waiting all this time for someone ignorant enough of the impossibility to do just that thing."
    author unknown

  3. #423
    Senior Member InsatiableCuriosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    *tips hat* speaking from experience here ma'am...


    Nevertheless provides an interesting opportunity to develop skills of rational argument
    "Study hard what interests you the most in the most undisciplined, irreverent and original manner possible."
    — Richard P. Feynman

    "Never tell a person a thing is impossible. G*d/the Universe may have been waiting all this time for someone ignorant enough of the impossibility to do just that thing."
    author unknown

  4. #424
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    nobody's explained that I'm supposed to be controlled in part by the Virgin yet... explain that and then I'll be stunned!
    Ok, let's see what I can make of it (though you'd be better off applying to someone more knowledgable, I will admit!). I'll take up the challenge in any case. I can't guarantee that I understand it properly or that my explanation will be at all relevant though!

    To summarise my understanding very briefly: the planets are supposed to represent archetypal energies that are present in every person's life, the signs the mode of expression those energies take. The houses represent the areas of your life in which the relevant energies are active, so presumably a house with a strong planetary influence represents an area of particular significance. Venus represents the impulse of creativity, self indulgence, and through those love, affection, and sexuality.

    The sign of Virgo channels energy in a down to earth, practical, and organised manner, and is very detail oriented. It's supposed to be associated with virtue and purity, but this does not mean literal virginity or sexual reserve, unless these things are particularly important to you. Venus in Virgo means more that your love, sexuality, and creativity are likely to be expressed in a Virgo style - the emphasis would therefore be on practicality, stability, common sense, attending to relevant details, and an avoidance of game-playing or drama - Virgo likes to be tidy, rational, and has a certain emotional reserve. Physical health and nutrition are supposed to be important in Virgo, and caring for a partner's bodily needs is likely to be an important way of showing affection, maybe more than direct expressions of love or emotion, etc. Finding a stable partner may actually be difficult as the innately crictical nature of Virgo is likely to find a lot of faults in potential mates.

    The first house is the house of outward appearances - how someone likes to put themselves across, so the sign and any planets there are quite significant in terms of your socialising and how you like to be seen (and are seen) by others. Venus in the first house suggests you are quite outgoing and sociable, with a tendency to be relaxed and casual in your associations with people, and able to form friends, get ahead in the world, and acquire lovers easily, if that's what you want to do, which it probably is. You're more likely to do these things for the pleasure of doing so than any long term ambitions however, unless something elsewhere in your chart gives you a more definite drive. Being on your own would be quite hard for you, as your pleasure and creativity are so linked to your social relations. Venus in this position is supposed to make you very aware of your personal appearance and fond of beautiful clothes and anything that will enhance your appearance, along with a certain tendency to self-indulgence, and a playful tendency. This will be moderated to some degree by the Virgo influence however, as described above.

    It's probably also going to make you very keen to nurture and care for others, probably in the physical sense too in the case of lovers etc, and to be very aware of any health issues they may have, along with a tendency to analyse, rather than experience, emotions, and to dwell on their faults. Since Virgo is linked with practical reason and is channeling visceral, emotional, instinctive energy, you ought to be a naturally good psychologist, as both are present but neither is able to dominate the other; you should therefore be able to analyse emotions in your interactions with others as they happen and make practical sense of them, without getting carried away.

    Anywhere near right? Most of this is guesswork, based on the few principles I know!
    Look into my avatar. Look deep into my avatar...

  5. #425
    Senior Member InsatiableCuriosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ming View Post
    You know what Victor? I think I love you.
    "Study hard what interests you the most in the most undisciplined, irreverent and original manner possible."
    — Richard P. Feynman

    "Never tell a person a thing is impossible. G*d/the Universe may have been waiting all this time for someone ignorant enough of the impossibility to do just that thing."
    author unknown

  6. #426
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InsatiableCuriosity View Post
    In actual fact, speaking in typology terms, there is a greater proportion of the Rational temperament in the male population than in the female population.

    You speak of rational as if it were a disease! That is insulting for all scientists. Don't you think the proving of any theory is rationalising?

    I would be more concerned over the irrational as that gives rise to prejudice and jumping to conclusions.
    Rational means reasonable.

    While rationalisation is a neurotic defence mechanism.

    However both words are similar, so no wonder they get confused.

  7. #427
    Senior Member InsatiableCuriosity's Avatar
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    In fact (based on the word Rational) in the Oxford Reference Dictionary the definition of Rationalize shows your definition as only 1 of 6 different meanings. Each of the rest of the definitions are about justifying/proving an argument/hypothesis.

    I forgot - along with prejudice and jumping to conclusions, generalising is another attribute of the irrational argument.
    "Study hard what interests you the most in the most undisciplined, irreverent and original manner possible."
    — Richard P. Feynman

    "Never tell a person a thing is impossible. G*d/the Universe may have been waiting all this time for someone ignorant enough of the impossibility to do just that thing."
    author unknown

  8. #428
    Energizer Bunny Resonance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InsatiableCuriosity View Post
    I concede that there is a large degree of charlatanism in astrology.

    On the other hand, at a macro scale, we KNOW the effect that the moon has on menses, tides, and the observable but not proven beyond doubt, psychoses, behaviour and sleep patterns.
    Do you have a reliable source for this? I mean, tides and menses ok but I always thought the behaviour effects were a result of confirmation bias and maybe a little bit of thomas theorem.

    Quote Originally Posted by InsatiableCuriosity View Post
    We also KNOW without doubt, the effect that sunspot activity has on radio frequency communication and who knows what else.
    yes but that is another chaos theory barrier ;D

    Quote Originally Posted by InsatiableCuriosity View Post
    So why are we so ready to absolutely deny the possibility of subtle effects of other heavenly bodies simply based on our observation of the charlatans?

    Would it not be better to say I don't believe it based on what I understand now but I am open to the possibility rather than adamantly denying it?
    I would be more likely to believe anything where the logic actually reaches from point A to B, for example the moon affects tides which affects trade with other nations which influences child development at that time of year, or something. But like, try harder than just 'oh, astrology COULD be true!' XD

  9. #429
    Senior Member InsatiableCuriosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragashree View Post
    Ok, let's see what I can make of it (though you'd be better off applying to someone more knowledgable, I will admit!). I'll take up the challenge in any case. I can't guarantee that I understand it properly or that my explanation will be at all relevant though!

    To summarise my understanding very briefly: the planets are supposed to represent archetypal energies that are present in every person's life, the signs the mode of expression those energies take. The houses represent the areas of your life in which the relevant energies are active, so presumably a house with a strong planetary influence represents an area of particular significance. Venus represents the impulse of creativity, self indulgence, and through those love, affection, and sexuality.

    The sign of Virgo channels energy in a down to earth, practical, and organised manner, and is very detail oriented. It's supposed to be associated with virtue and purity, but this does not mean literal virginity or sexual reserve, unless these things are particularly important to you. Venus in Virgo means more that your love, sexuality, and creativity are likely to be expressed in a Virgo style - the emphasis would therefore be on practicality, stability, common sense, attending to relevant details, and an avoidance of game-playing or drama - Virgo likes to be tidy, rational, and has a certain emotional reserve. Physical health and nutrition are supposed to be important in Virgo, and caring for a partner's bodily needs is likely to be an important way of showing affection, maybe more than direct expressions of love or emotion, etc. Finding a stable partner may actually be difficult as the innately crictical nature of Virgo is likely to find a lot of faults in potential mates.

    The first house is the house of outward appearances - how someone likes to put themselves across, so the sign and any planets there are quite significant in terms of your socialising and how you like to be seen (and are seen) by others. Venus in the first house suggests you are quite outgoing and sociable, with a tendency to be relaxed and casual in your associations with people, and able to form friends, get ahead in the world, and acquire lovers easily, if that's what you want to do, which it probably is. You're more likely to do these things for the pleasure of doing so than any long term ambitions however, unless something elsewhere in your chart gives you a more definite drive. Being on your own would be quite hard for you, as your pleasure and creativity are so linked to your social relations. Venus in this position is supposed to make you very aware of your personal appearance and fond of beautiful clothes and anything that will enhance your appearance, along with a certain tendency to self-indulgence, and a playful tendency. This will be moderated to some degree by the Virgo influence however, as described above.

    It's probably also going to make you very keen to nurture and care for others, probably in the physical sense too in the case of lovers etc, and to be very aware of any health issues they may have, along with a tendency to analyse, rather than experience, emotions, and to dwell on their faults. Since Virgo is linked with practical reason and is channeling visceral, emotional, instinctive energy, you ought to be a naturally good psychologist, as both are present but neither is able to dominate the other; you should therefore be able to analyse emotions in your interactions with others as they happen and make practical sense of them, without getting carried away.

    Anywhere near right? Most of this is guesswork, based on the few principles I know!
    Interestingly this posits the possibility that the attributes of the ancient Gods, and the traits with which they were identified, probably came after the observation of similarities in character based on birth dates. Venus was the deity invented to explain the similarities of the traits with which she was attributed???
    "Study hard what interests you the most in the most undisciplined, irreverent and original manner possible."
    — Richard P. Feynman

    "Never tell a person a thing is impossible. G*d/the Universe may have been waiting all this time for someone ignorant enough of the impossibility to do just that thing."
    author unknown

  10. #430
    Senior Member InsatiableCuriosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blairvoyant View Post
    Do you have a reliable source for this? I mean, tides and menses ok but I always thought the behaviour effects were a result of confirmation bias and maybe a little bit of thomas theorem.


    yes but that is another chaos theory barrier ;D


    I would be more likely to believe anything where the logic actually reaches from point A to B, for example the moon affects tides which affects trade with other nations which influences child development at that time of year, or something. But like, try harder than just 'oh, astrology COULD be true!' XD
    My first career was as a Mental Health Nurse and it is accepted anecdotally that the full moon has a distinct negative effect on sleep patterns of many people and psychoses. Hence the word Lunatic. Whether that is the effect of the moon on water, of which our body is largely made up, or something other I cannot tell you.
    "Study hard what interests you the most in the most undisciplined, irreverent and original manner possible."
    — Richard P. Feynman

    "Never tell a person a thing is impossible. G*d/the Universe may have been waiting all this time for someone ignorant enough of the impossibility to do just that thing."
    author unknown

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