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View Poll Results: Do you believe in astrology?

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  • Yes

    33 18.13%
  • No

    142 78.02%
  • I have no idea what it is? So I'm not sure.

    7 3.85%
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  1. #281
    Senior Member forzen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacabreCharade View Post
    This doesn't really work when the people are trying to push it down. It needs an open mind and actual research and diving into.
    So if it's 'bullshit', then why hasn't it died out yet? You may think: "But religion hasn't died out either!". Well...religion has all the books, churches and physical 'evidence' behind all of it, apparently buying people into believing it.
    But astrology has not. All it has is the astronomical placements and they have been backing it up for millenniums. But that's apparently enough to manage to keep it alive.
    Indeed, astrology actually is a valid system and it will probably be used for a very long time.

    From a person with a chart highly similar to mine:

    ""Sir, I have studied it, you have not" -Isaac Newton, Astrologer (190 IQ) said in defense of astrology to disbeliever in Halley (comet discoverer)"
    I don't know how many people had called astrology "bullshit" in the thread. But, i'm one of them and I like to point out that I'm only speaking for myself. If I seem like i'm conveying my opinion to represent the collective ideas of more than myself, I appologize.

    However, I agree that forcing opinions upon other people is never a good way to win a debate or getting people to change their views.
    This post grammatical errors had been intentionally left uncorrected.

  2. #282
    Senior Member matmos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacabreCharade View Post
    From a person with a chart highly similar to mine:

    ""Sir, I have studied it, you have not" -Isaac Newton, Astrologer (190 IQ) said in defense of astrology to disbeliever in Halley (comet discoverer)"
    "During the past few decades, an enormous amount of studies have been published on Newton... However, none of these studies have turned up one shred of evidence that Newton ever conducted any research on astrology. One of the foremost Newton scholars, the English historian of science Derek Thomas Whiteside has stated that he never found any reference to astrology among the 50 million words which have been preserved from Newton’s hand."

    From Isaac Newton: Witness for the defence or for the prosecution? - SkepticReport

    One would suppose that Newton's reference library would give some clue as to his interests. Astrology does not appear to be that highly placed. From the same source:

    "At his death, Newton’s library possessed no more than four books [of the 1752 books with identifiable titles] on the subject of astrology: a work by the German astrologer Johann Essler from Mainz (end 15th/begin 16th century), a treatise on palmistry and astrology by the English doctor/astrologer Richard Saunders (1613-1675), an almanac from the same using the pseudonym Cardanus Rider[10] and finally a work debunking astrology by the philosopher-poet and Cambridge professor Henry More (1614-1687)."

    And finally. The quote "Sir, I have studied it, you have not" used is actually a misquote.

    " It will therefore not come as a surprise that the true source for our anecdote in fact derives from Newton’s latter interests. More than 50 years ago the American historian of science I. Bernard Cohen was able to trace it back to the highly regarded Newton biographies by the English physicist David Brewster (1781-1868) in which it is cited as:

    ‘… when Dr. Halley ventured to say anything disrespectful to religion, he invariably checked him, with the remark, “I have studied these things – you have not”.’
    Newton had interest in theology, as the 477 theological books listed in his collection allude to. He evidently took umbridge at Halley's godlessness, not his skepticism of astrology.

    Perhaps you may have a better source for the quote's sources, other than than a respected historian and Harvard professor whose speciality was... Isaac Newton.


  3. #283
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    Four books, eh?

    That's more than my one...

    And I'd say I qualify as "interested in astrology"...

  4. #284
    Senior Member matmos's Avatar
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    Well, three books - if you don't include the one debunking astrology by Henry More.

    Which equates to 0.0017% of his collection.

    Fair point, though, given his interest and expertise on astrology.


  5. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by bananatrombones View Post
    Well, three books - if you don't include the one debunking astrology by Henry More.

    Which equates to 0.0017% of his collection.


    Umm, after you divide the numerator by the denominator, you're supposed to multiply by 100 to get the percentage.

    You're about two decimal places (i.e., 100x) off, big guy...

  6. #286
    Alexander the Terrible yenom's Avatar
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    I am sort of a half believer.

    But then again, all psychology theories revolve around bullshit(MBTI included), becuase human nature is too complex and unpredictable. So I don't see how the MBTI and enneagram (especially enneagram) is superior to astrology.

    Its all based all archetypes.
    The fear of poverty turns people into slaves of money.

    "In this Caesar there are many Mariuses"~Sulla

    Conquer your inner demons first before you conquer the world.

  7. #287
    Senior Member matmos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post


    Umm, after you divide the numerator by the denominator, you're supposed to multiply by 100 to get the percentage.

    You're about two decimal places (i.e., 100x) off, big guy...
    Quite right. My bad. 0.17% is the correct figure. A grand total. Apologies for the error.

    But you're correct - 3 books is 3 books. It does show an interest, as you say.

    And using a woopsy percentage, rather than an absolute figure, doesn't establish that he had no interest.

    That he possessed three books on the subject and one against it is salient. But exactly how salient? We could hold up the 3 books as evidence of his (evident) interest and ownership More's book to speculate something else.

    But, mere possession of a book (or three) doesn't necessarily mean he endorsed it, only that he had an "interest". The depth of his interest is speculative, and moderated by the possession of a tome debunking astrology.

    You confuse an interest (of whatever magnitude) with an endorsement. It is not.

    What we do know, Zarathustra, is that the quote ascribed to him - which has him defending astrology with Dr Halley - is false.

    I believe I have a couple of books on astrology somewhere. Both are rubbish.

  8. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by bananatrombones View Post
    Fair point, though, given his interest and expertise on astrology.

    I'm sorry, I've read this about fourteen times, and I'm still not sure whether you were being sarcastic or sincere...

    Was Newton, in fact, interested in astrology, or not?

    EDIT: sorry, hadn't seen your above post before writing this.

  9. #289
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    Umm, I never said Newton endorsed astrology...

  10. #290
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    You should read Richard Tarnas' book.

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