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Dreams: How Do You Dance with Your Chimera

Spamtar

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Dreams

Do the choices we make in them have any impact? If so how and where. What about all of the dream people? Are there dream worlds out there with just as much value as "the real world"? Does the dream universe go beyond the "real universe". Have you ever died in a dream? Halucinations...do they belong to the real world or the dream world. Can someone be an atheist in the 'real world' and a theist in the dream world? What happens to our dreams/dream worlds when we die?

For me the dream worlds hold as much value in my life than the 'real world'. Maybe thats why I am a P instead of a J. My dreams are very vivid and often intense. It feels as if I create quicker and more intense relationships. A lot more action...and much less apparent consequence.

I talked to this old guy from a college philosophy class who also appeared to be different from most of the sheeple. He told me he would set his alarm when he estimated that his dreams/(REM) were at their peak. The alarm would awaken him and he would write down his dreams.

I tried it a couple of times but it seemed...sacraligious.
 

Spamtar

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The problem with dreams (for some) is that they are difficult to qualify. Difficult to determine if they are full of hidden meanings or meaningless. Difficult to measure, to time, to trace in a linear fashion.

This might seem a problem with many in western society but less so for eastern societies or those individual in touch with their Pness. These devices for measuring, keeping track of time, chronicling events, finding precise meaning and rules of interpretation...are mostly irrelevant and arbitrary. (unless you are building a structure up to code or a Lexus that won't roll driving quickly on a sharp curve)
 

Asterion

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Dreams

Do the choices we make in them have any impact? If so how and where. What about all of the dream people? Are there dream worlds out there with just as much value as "the real world"? Does the dream universe go beyond the "real universe". Have you ever died in a dream? Halucinations...do they belong to the real world or the dream world. Can someone be an atheist in the 'real world' and a theist in the dream world? What happens to our dreams/dream worlds when we die?

For me the dream worlds hold as much value in my life than the 'real world'. Maybe thats why I am a P instead of a J. My dreams are very vivid and often intense. It feels as if I create quicker and more intense relationships. A lot more action...and much less apparent consequence.

I talked to this old guy from a college philosophy class who also appeared to be different from most of the sheeple. He told me he would set his alarm when he estimated that his dreams/(REM) were at their peak. The alarm would awaken him and he would write down his dreams.

I tried it a couple of times but it seemed...sacraligious.

Well, Chaos theory tells you that even the slightest difference in a seemingly insignificant choice can have a huge impact on everything. That could also come down to the choices you make in your dreams. I'd say that the odds of it causing any great impact are low though, and it's nearly impossible to speculate what kind of impact that could be. 'The simple flapping of a butterflies wings could cause a hurricane on the other side of the world...' (I think that's how it goes)

Your dreams may only seem intense because you can only remember the parts that are most intense. You know how you'll wake up with a 'feeling' after your dreams and then you can't recall any detail? I'm willing to think that dreams are just randomness. You'd gain more insight into your subconcious while you're awake. But if you think that reality is just a dream (... is just randomness maybe?), I can see how they'd mean more.

There has to be a starting point somewhere. Dreams come from some sort of random electric signals in your sleep and we came about from some random big bang. What's the difference?
 

Spamtar

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Your dreams may only seem intense because you can only remember the parts that are most intense. You know how you'll wake up with a 'feeling' after your dreams and then you can't recall any detail?[/I]

This is an interesting point although the dream I had when I woke up this morning was being chased around with someone who was being chased around by a psychopathic drug cartel.

Good point on Chaos Theory, yet I am thinking more concrete.

For example that maybe in another dimension or on some planet or alternative reality the choices we have in our dreams have a profound impact. I.e. if we kill someone in our dreams the family of the dream victims will morn and suffer.

Perhaps reality is also just electronic impulses similar to the Matrix (I am not so willing to test this theory by stepping in front of a truck but then again in my dreams I don't go around stepping in front of moving vehicles either)

Or in the very least dream karma.

I know it sounds crazy...call me a dreamer.
 

Serendipity

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I'm on to you in this one, what I've noticed so far is that dream-memories (memories one has within a dream of that certain dreamscape) always occur if you are dreaming something very similiar and the changes made, rearranges how those memories in the dreams are interpreted.

I like to think that what I am doing in dreams is actually poking this side (or any other side as there's plenty of sides) and bonding with objects(souls/matter/whatever seen or not seen) for the purpose of meeting up one day or just perhaps meet up one day. Not sure this really applies at all to what you meant. It really doesn't.

And I was thinking something else but it got lost in all of the commotion.

I wonder, do you ever kill for fun in dreams? Because I simply couldn't. I feel terrible inflicting any kind of pain upon anyone on either side.

Is the dream-self different?

I would very much be viewed as an enfp (I'm going mbti in a thread that had a lovely rest from the topic) type of personality if my dreamself would be different.
 

Spamtar

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I wonder, do you ever kill for fun in dreams? Because I simply couldn't. I feel terrible inflicting any kind of pain upon anyone on either side.

Is the dream-self different?.

I thinks so as I have killed in dreams, although the violence is generally not too graphic. (i.e. throwing someone off a bridge). In general my dream self doesn't kill or perfers not to kill although it seems to like to fist fight/street fight.

Whether our dream selfs are different. I would answer that in my case they are similar but not identical.

Some other interesting albeit vauge points raised, especially as far as dream memories/astral projection will need some time to ponder those.
 

miss fortune

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I only tend to remember the nightmares, which I have rather frequently... there's nothing worse than waking up in the middle of the night feeling completely off because of some damned dream :steam:
 

gromit

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I think dreams can be significant, particularly if the dream is accompanied by a sense of meaning... I look for what it could be telling me about what I'm feeling or how I perceive things currently, or about things I would like to change. The meaning is typically a combination of symbolic and literal. Typically there is heavy symbolism during periods of transition in my life.

That said I have had dreams which included plump, warm, baby animals two nights in a row (puppies the first night, and a bunny the second night). This has me somewhat baffled...
 

Spamtar

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I only tend to remember the nightmares, which I have rather frequently... there's nothing worse than waking up in the middle of the night feeling completely off because of some damned dream :steam:

Nightmares can be terrifying. I can remember one quiet clearly from years ago about Yuppies on PCP trying to kill. As for other dreams maybe going out in nature and sleeping under the moon would help. Also the supplement melatonin combined with the L-Lysine gives me especially vivid dreams and might awaken the good ones you have. They can be found at most drug stores/health food stores.

I think dreams can be significant, particularly if the dream is accompanied by a sense of meaning... I look for what it could be telling me about what I'm feeling or how I perceive things currently, or about things I would like to change. The meaning is typically a combination of symbolic and literal. Typically there is heavy symbolism during periods of transition in my life.

That said I have had dreams which included plump, warm, baby animals two nights in a row (puppies the first night, and a bunny the second night). This has me somewhat baffled...

I agree that many dreams transfer meanings. Dream dictionaries are pretty good in my opinion. Free ones on the Internet. Here is what it says about your dream.

Pup
To dream of pups, denotes that you will entertain the innocent and hapless, and thereby enjoy pleasure. The dream also shows that friendships will grow stronger, and fortune will increase if the pups are healthful and well formed, and vice versa if they are lean and filthy.
Rabbit
To dream of rabbits, foretells favorable turns in conditions, and you will be more pleased with your gains than formerly. To see white rabbits, denotes faithfulness in love, to the married or single. To see rabbits frolicking about, denotes that children will contribute to your joys.
 

gromit

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I don't know how I feel about universal symbolism in my dreams... but that is food for thought!
 

Iriohm

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Do the choices we make in them have any impact? If so how and where?
I would think so. Not in "real" life, probably, but dreams can give experiences too, and as I keep saying, the more you make a choice, the easier it is to make.

What about all of the dream people?
...dream...people? I don't...what? (Can't...brain...have...too much!)
Ah, never-mind that. If I understand correctly, you're asking what happens to dream people after you wake up, in which case my answer is that I imagine they keep on existing as part of your subconscious. Perhaps they even represented a part. Different facets of a personality can be assigned identities after all; I've done mine.

Are there dream worlds out there with just as much value as "the real world"?
Yes, yes, and more "Yes". Where would we be without the imagination?

Does the dream universe go beyond the "real universe"?
If one had to go beyond the other, I'd put money on the dream universe, but I like to think of them as two sides of the same coin rather than two entirely separate places.

Have you ever died in a dream?
Yes. Yes, I have.

Halucinations...do they belong to the real world or the dream world?
What is the real world, but a collection of perceptions commonly accepted as true, and what are hallucinations, but proof of that notion?

Can someone be an atheist in the 'real world' and a theist in the dream world?
Anything's possible, but in most cases I would say no. One tends to retain some measure of self in the dream world, so I guess it would depend on how strong of an atheist one was.

What happens to our dreams/dream worlds when we die?
They live on, because they're not ours. All we did was carve a path to them. Plus, with the afterlife and all that, who's to say we ever truly die?

I tried it a couple of times but it seemed... sacrilegious.
Really? I haven't tried it at all, but only because it would be too much of a hassle to wake up in the middle of deep sleep to write something down.
 

Kingfisher

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My dreams are very vivid and often intense. It feels as if I create quicker and more intense relationships. A lot more action...and much less apparent consequence.

for me the consequences are much more extreme in my dreams than in real life. little things that happen in my dreams upset the path of the dream in pretty dramatic ways.
so i think that consequences are a major mechanic of my dreams, they are a real driving force.

do you think about consequences much in everyday life? are they pretty apparent to you then?

For me the dream worlds hold as much value in my life than the 'real world'. Maybe thats why I am a P instead of a J.

what kind of value?
my dreams hold a lot of personal value to me, so i think that they are much more personally significant than every day life in a lot of ways, they seem like a very raw expression of myself.
but they also seem very insulated, i think dreams close me off from the rest of the world in a big way, because they are so singularly personal. i think it is a "man against the world" or "man apart from the world" kind of situation.

so i think that everyday life is a lot more freeing in a way, because of the social value and social and emotional interconnectedness of it.

I talked to this old guy from a college philosophy class who also appeared to be different from most of the sheeple. He told me he would set his alarm when he estimated that his dreams/(REM) were at their peak. The alarm would awaken him and he would write down his dreams.

I tried it a couple of times but it seemed...sacraligious.

that does seem sacrilegious, i don't think i would want to try it.
that feels to me like interrupting someone in the middle of a riveting story.

Is the dream-self different?

i think my dream self is exactly me, except on a much more grand and heroic scale. i think it is like an exaggeration of me, so it seems more heroic and also more deeply flawed.
 

Spamtar

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Thank you Dream Warriors!

Some outstanding thoughts here. When someone speaks of something of great depth or is able to see something which is profound in various views there is a certain satiation as if eating astonishing ambrosia at an amazing feast.

I wonder if our unconscious gives special consideration to these ideas in our sleep too.
 

miss fortune

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Nightmares can be terrifying. I can remember one quiet clearly from years ago about Yuppies on PCP trying to kill. As for other dreams maybe going out in nature and sleeping under the moon would help. Also the supplement melatonin combined with the L-Lysine gives me especially vivid dreams and might awaken the good ones you have. They can be found at most drug stores/health food stores.

It's kind of pathetic, but nightmares have become a normal thing for me anymore... what's a week if you don't wake up at least one night in a panic? :doh:

It's much easier when you can roll over next to someone warm and sleeping... otherwise I'd be looking for something :blush:
 

gromit

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Thank you Dream Warriors!

Some outstanding thoughts here. When someone speaks of something of great depth or is able to see something which is profound in various views there is a certain satiation as if eating astonishing ambrosia at an amazing feast.

I wonder if our unconscious gives special consideration to these ideas in our sleep too.

:wubbie:
 

Kingfisher

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When someone speaks of something of great depth or is able to see something which is profound in various views there is a certain satiation as if eating astonishing ambrosia at an amazing feast.

definitely! it is very enthusing and energizing too, it gives the conversation and your relationship with that person a lot of powerful momentum, i think.

I wonder if our unconscious gives special consideration to these ideas in our sleep too.

that is a very cool thought! maybe our unconscious is a kind of guide for us in a way, to point us in meaningful directions. it does seem like it is very very good at picking the most significant things out a crowd, and illuminating them in really unexpected ways.
 

Kingfisher

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It's kind of pathetic, but nightmares have become a normal thing for me anymore... what's a week if you don't wake up at least one night in a panic? :doh:

have you always had nightmares, or always so frequently? do you remember a time when you had consistantly good dreams?

a long time ago i used to have nightmares very often. i was never able to figure out why they stopped.

It's much easier when you can roll over next to someone warm and sleeping... otherwise I'd be looking for something :blush:

definitely! sometimes my wife wakes me up and says "you were having a bad dream", or i wake up and she is there sleeping next to me. that really releases the tension of it. it doesn't hang on your mind so much then.
 

sculpting

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I once was very close to a tornado IRL and also very near a large grassfire. For years after each I would have dreams of fear-but for both eventually I could focus and make the fires go out or divert the path of the tornados.

I dream of water endlessly. Lakes, puddles, waves, rivers. People drown a lot. I have given literally hundreds of people cpr in my dreams-no exaggeration. I know I care deeply for you when you drown in my dreams and I wake up crying. The water will surround me-floods typically, giant waves, deep oceans, tsumanis.

I often go swimming in very dark oceans knowing I will never return to the shore. It is a feeling of oneness. For some reason I am often running from something rather dark and frightening yet seductively entrancing on the shore...I choose to swim away rather than surrender, knowing it is death, yet satisfied and content.

Like spamtar mentioned-emotions and attachments in dreams can be far more intense than things I feel in real life.
 

miss fortune

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have you always had nightmares, or always so frequently? do you remember a time when you had consistantly good dreams?

a long time ago i used to have nightmares very often. i was never able to figure out why they stopped.


I don't even remember dreaming when I was younger... not until I was in my 20s and things started to go wrong... since that point I've pretty consistantly had nightmares... usually about someone chasing me and trying to kill me :blush:

definitely! sometimes my wife wakes me up and says "you were having a bad dream", or i wake up and she is there sleeping next to me. that really releases the tension of it. it doesn't hang on your mind so much then.

yeah- the fears that seem really REAL in a nightmare can easily be abated by a warm sleeping person... especially when they snore very consistantly :doh:
 
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