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    Senior Member Forever_Jung's Avatar
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    Default Machismo, Homophobia, Ignorance

    Okay this may be in the wrong forum, if so, I apologize. Also, don't worry, there IS a point to all this. Well I think so at least.

    I got pseudo-mugged the other day. See, I live in a rural area, and I made the mistake of wearing my laptop bag/school bag around town after coming home from the large city to which I commute. Why was this a mistake? Well, since the bag is slung across your shoulder it does vaguely resemble a purse despite its size. The fine gentleman who loiter in parking lots all day by their beaten up pick-ups to discuss cognac, Voltaire and running over small animals with ATV's noticed this resemblance. Using their nuanced knowledge of gender roles they began to recognize a problem: That is a guy, but he is wearing something that looks like a purse...how can this be?

    I was then approached by several of these bulky, plaid-clad, 20-something miscreants so they could clarify this discrepancy. By which I mean I was treated to physical confrontation and a series of less than polite inquiries about the nature of my gender and/or sexual orientation. I would prefer not to reproduce these statements on this forum, however I will tell you I got a mild thrashing and my bag was a bit worse for wear. I am relatively unperturbed however, being accustomed to such incidents (I would pick on me too, were I a ruffian, what with my glasses and reputation for being a spaced-out, socially awkward person).

    Now I realize it may be unfair to ask this to people who live in more "progressive" surroundings, but do you encounter a lot of macho bullshit in your life? Some of my family members have even questioned my manhood because I am attending university (I am the first member of my family to attend university, and my father has a sixth grade education), which begs the question: Why is university unacceptable for men? Also is "gay" treated like an insult where you come from? What do you think is the root of all this behaviour? Whatever other thoughts you conjure up on the matter I would be most interested in seeing them.

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    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    Oooh... I have been cooking up some interesting thoughts about sex and gender roles that I wanted to post as their own topic, but maybe I'll just post them to here, now that you have brought up something similar.

    On which continent do you live?
    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.

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    Senior Member Forever_Jung's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    Oooh... I have been cooking up some interesting thoughts about sex and gender roles that I wanted to post as their own topic, but maybe I'll just post them to here, now that you have brought up something similar.

    On which continent do you live?
    North America...but if that doesn't work, take whatever direction you like

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    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    First of all, sorry to hear about this man, are you pressing charges against the assholes?

    This could be interesting to anyone who thinks they may have me pigeon holed on the topic of homosexuality. I dont support or encourage the spread of homosexuality, its not something which I regard as understandable or healthy either. I've major doubts about the bio-psychological explanations for its origins, whether that's the body chemistry of mothers (which I think is actually a male chauvinist explanation, think about it) or anything else.

    On the other hand I do not hold at all with the use of words associated with homosexuality being used in a menacing or prejorative sense, I'm also not alright with the demonisation of effeminate, effette or similar traits, behaviour or appearences which may be associated in some minds with homosexuality.

    Personally I dont like the whole metrosexual thing, I dont like some of the attention grabbing garb and actions of some of the homosexual fraternity either but so what, I dont like cricket either, it shouldnt earn anyone attention, abuse or a roughing up.

    I've been told by others that I can be very macho or ultra manned, I dont think so personally, not even when I raise my voice, challenge behaviour I dont like (I really dont like bullies) or have to behave aggressively, I dont think of those behaviours as macho or exclusively male.

    It doesnt happen in Northern Ireland anymore that going to university draws aggrivation from others, maybe it did at a time but I doubt it, the class divisions and other divisions are more important than "college" vs. other, I think perhaps it could be to do with the privilege that is associated with "college" in the US, jealous, envy and bitterness. Then again I do know that someone in Newcastle who's a teacher and married to the sister of one of my friends was mistook for a student and assaulted by a group of guys with a bat, this was to do with his perception as a "smart ass student" but I dont know how common that is.

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    Senior Member Chunes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever_Jung View Post
    Some of my family members have even questioned my manhood because I am attending university (I am the first member of my family to attend university, and my father has a sixth grade education), which begs the question: Why is university unacceptable for men?
    WTF?

    Get the hell away from wherever you are and never go back.
    "If you would convince a man that he does wrong, do right. But do not care to convince him. Men will believe what they see. Let them see."
    Thoreau

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    Senior Member man's Avatar
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    University is more man that for woman in historical context !!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    This could be interesting to anyone who thinks they may have me pigeon holed on the topic of homosexuality. I dont support or encourage the spread of homosexuality, its not something which I regard as understandable or healthy either. I've major doubts about the bio-psychological explanations for its origins, whether that's the body chemistry of mothers (which I think is actually a male chauvinist explanation, think about it) or anything else.
    A lot of people have trouble viewing something as unhealthy and wrong without also vilifying, dismissing, or disenfranchising a condition for whom it might be viewed as part of their identity.

    I think the bio-psychological explanation has become popular nowadays, just as in the '60's behavioralism was all the rage. It's not really clear what mix of conditions (genetic/bio, or environmental/social) creates a homosexual mindset, although I tend not to be dismissive of anything. Nor do I consider the element of maternal hormones and birth sequence to be chauvinist, since the reason it's considered as a possible contributor would exist regardless of whether the man or the woman was the carrier of the child.

    Regardless, as you have noted, violence is not acceptable.

    Personally I dont like the whole metrosexual thing, I dont like some of the attention grabbing garb and actions of some of the homosexual fraternity either but so what, I dont like cricket either, it shouldnt earn anyone attention, abuse or a roughing up.
    Why, because you think metrosexuals are or "look" gay?
    Why even toss this in?

    FJ, I can empathize with you and what happened, and it shouldn't have. I do live in "Pennsyltucky" as Mercury called it, but it's not quite redneck enough where just going to college is a beatable offense... although I think a satchel might attract some hoots depending on the guys in question. When I was growing up, early in school "smarts" were actually admired. It was later in school (starting in middle) where braniacs were picked on, but as long as you weren't presumptuous about it or acted like you were better -- i.e., talked down to earth and were fun to be with -- people eventually by high school either let you alone or were positively inclined. At that point, people were also veering into their own career paths -- a lot of vo-tech in my area, then community college, and then a minority of college prep.

    Guys definitely did not want to be seen as "fags" though. I'm not sure what it was. It might have even been less the sexual connotation than just the idea that the guy was weak, girlish, effeminate, not tough or strong, a real "priss" in their eyes. Yet one of my friends in hs, a pretty flamboyant queer, never really seemed to get beat up. It was like they didn't consider it worth their time because he was SO overt. maybe it's the ones who were more in the middle who were considered threatening... or maybe they thought they could "save" somehow.

    Honestly, based the situation you describe, I'm more inclined to think they're partly just bored with their lives, resentful that you're doing something that might bring in money, education represents 'liberalism' to some forms of conservative america and so you're getting lumped in with those sorts of political values, etc. They did it because they could, and because they are unhappy with their lives, and because there were a number of them, and because they wanted to take out their frustrations on someone. They're bullies.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    I really just have to say that I think it's cool how you can go through that and still end up making it into an entertaining post with slight comedic value.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer
    Honestly, based the situation you describe, I'm more inclined to think they're partly just bored with their lives, resentful that you're doing something that might bring in money, education represents 'liberalism' to some forms of conservative america and so you're getting lumped in with those sorts of political values, etc. They did it because they could, and because they are unhappy with their lives, and because there were a number of them, and because they wanted to take out their frustrations on someone. They're bullies.
    I think this is probably on the money, though.

    Most of the genuinely rough guys I know hate bullying.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

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    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever_Jung View Post
    Okay this may be in the wrong forum, if so, I apologize. Also, don't worry, there IS a point to all this. Well I think so at least.

    I got pseudo-mugged the other day. See, I live in a rural area, and I made the mistake of wearing my laptop bag/school bag around town after coming home from the large city to which I commute. Why was this a mistake? Well, since the bag is slung across your shoulder it does vaguely resemble a purse despite its size. The fine gentleman who loiter in parking lots all day by their beaten up pick-ups to discuss cognac, Voltaire and running over small animals with ATV's noticed this resemblance. Using their nuanced knowledge of gender roles they began to recognize a problem: That is a guy, but he is wearing something that looks like a purse...how can this be?

    I was then approached by several of these bulky, plaid-clad, 20-something miscreants so they could clarify this discrepancy. By which I mean I was treated to physical confrontation and a series of less than polite inquiries about the nature of my gender and/or sexual orientation. I would prefer not to reproduce these statements on this forum, however I will tell you I got a mild thrashing and my bag was a bit worse for wear. I am relatively unperturbed however, being accustomed to such incidents (I would pick on me too, were I a ruffian, what with my glasses and reputation for being a spaced-out, socially awkward person).

    Now I realize it may be unfair to ask this to people who live in more "progressive" surroundings, but do you encounter a lot of macho bullshit in your life? Some of my family members have even questioned my manhood because I am attending university (I am the first member of my family to attend university, and my father has a sixth grade education), which begs the question: Why is university unacceptable for men? Also is "gay" treated like an insult where you come from? What do you think is the root of all this behaviour? Whatever other thoughts you conjure up on the matter I would be most interested in seeing them.
    haven't read anything else yet but my god does that piss me off! omg i wish i was a guy so i could spend my time fucking up ignorant pricks like that....hmmhmm...excuse me.

    omg i hope you plan to move after school.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  10. #10
    Supreme High Commander Andy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever_Jung View Post
    Okay this may be in the wrong forum, if so, I apologize. Also, don't worry, there IS a point to all this. Well I think so at least.

    I got pseudo-mugged the other day. See, I live in a rural area, and I made the mistake of wearing my laptop bag/school bag around town after coming home from the large city to which I commute. Why was this a mistake? Well, since the bag is slung across your shoulder it does vaguely resemble a purse despite its size. The fine gentleman who loiter in parking lots all day by their beaten up pick-ups to discuss cognac, Voltaire and running over small animals with ATV's noticed this resemblance. Using their nuanced knowledge of gender roles they began to recognize a problem: That is a guy, but he is wearing something that looks like a purse...how can this be?

    I was then approached by several of these bulky, plaid-clad, 20-something miscreants so they could clarify this discrepancy. By which I mean I was treated to physical confrontation and a series of less than polite inquiries about the nature of my gender and/or sexual orientation. I would prefer not to reproduce these statements on this forum, however I will tell you I got a mild thrashing and my bag was a bit worse for wear. I am relatively unperturbed however, being accustomed to such incidents (I would pick on me too, were I a ruffian, what with my glasses and reputation for being a spaced-out, socially awkward person).

    Now I realize it may be unfair to ask this to people who live in more "progressive" surroundings, but do you encounter a lot of macho bullshit in your life? Some of my family members have even questioned my manhood because I am attending university (I am the first member of my family to attend university, and my father has a sixth grade education), which begs the question: Why is university unacceptable for men? Also is "gay" treated like an insult where you come from? What do you think is the root of all this behaviour? Whatever other thoughts you conjure up on the matter I would be most interested in seeing them.
    Good grief, do you live in hillbilly central or something? Are there a lot of good banjo players in the area? Anyway, to answer your questions... The word gay is used a mild, almost childish insult, as in "That's so gay". If someone wants to cause serious offence, they would be more likely to go for fag or puffter. University is acceptable for both sexes - almost too much in fact! Sometimes I think the country needs fewer graduates and more tradesman.

    For all that, though, there is a certain amount of macho bullshit, but nothing like as much as what you seem to be experiencing. I haven't seen much since I left school, but I do remember one occation since then. We were at home, sitting in the kitchen. when a mouse ran across the floor and under the sink, amongst all the clutter down there. The girl I has sitting with started shouting "Kill it! Kill it!" Frankly, I couldn't be bothered. There was a gap behind the the cupboards, so by the time I'd manage to shift all the stuff out of the way, that rodent would have been long gone.

    In short, there was no way in hell I was going to start crawling around on my knees trying to catch that stupid mouse. Just put some traps down, ok? It wasn't ok, and she turned round to me and said "A real man would have done it." I just just snorted derisively and gave her my stfu look. She didn't bother me with thaat sort of bullshit again.

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