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Machismo, Homophobia, Ignorance

kyuuei

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The whole sissy-boy thing makes me want to vomit, though. Men should be men. Period.
If some aren't, maybe they should have therapy, but not violence.

This statement makes little sense to me. Men are men. There is no should be on it. If you feel, are, and live your life as a male.. then you're pretty much a man.
I think you mean that the ideals that men are suppose to historically live by should be upholded.. but are they really anymore?
Some people feel men should be gentlemen.. opening doors for people, taking off hats inside of buidings, wearing suits to functions instead of lazy jeans, etc.
Some people think men should be hardworking.. constantly constructing things, building, tearing down and toying, and that office jobs are for ladies.
Some people act like men should be hardheaded.. Ready to fight, ready to react, firm in their decisions and not backing down for anyone.
Some people believe men should be whores.. it's okay to try hard to get into a girls pants, and drink copious amounts and assume it's okay to act a fool on it.
The idea of what people think men should act like is ridiculous on whole scale. It only works on an individual basis.. "What kind of man is he?" Rather than "How he should be"

Why? Its not that any of those qualities are wrong.. But it is because someone is TELLING you how to live your life. If a group of strangers came to you and told you you HAD to start carrying a purse everywhere.. would you do it? Probably not. You'd probably tell them to eff off. Why? It's not because purses endanger who you are -- I'm sure you'd still be yourself, purse in hand or not -- it is because someone else is telling you how to live your life, instead of you deciding for yourself. Why would you let anyone decide for you? Moreless a group of strangers that don't give a shit less about you, or care about how things affect you?

Violence is sometimes a solution, but it really isn't if you're going to reform someone who is mentally ill.

Probably the mose sane thing you said in this post. Violence is a solution.. how great of one it is is up in the air, but it is an option.

Homosexuality is not a good thing that should be embraced by society, just dealt with on a personal basis, and perhaps with professional help.
Just like people who want to do other really disgusting and horrible things has to keep it in their pants because it's against the law, as it still should be.

You're the opposite. People should embrace as a society how things should be.. even if they don't personally feel that it is right. It is your individual right to think homosexuality is disgusting.. or that metro-men are annoying and wrong. You can think it your whole life, and be okay with it. But embracing them in a way where an adult has the same rights as you is necessary. You don't "deal" with women because they are attracted to men. Nor should you 'deal' with homosexual men.

To bring this back to topic. Bullies are the topic, afterall. The men in the OP who assumed him weird or off by carrying a satchel (a rather common instrument for men.. always has been historically) were acting because they were telling this man how he should do things. The reality is, they should disgree with it personally, but not force themselves on others.

I might sound like a conservative Christian, here, and in fact this is one of the few points where I agree with them.
Why? Because they're somewhat right, and people just don't dare to step on anyones' toes anymore. What's next? Legalizing pedophilia? Necrophilia? Zoophilia?

The main problem I have with this argument is that children, animals, dead people, etc.. do not have the right to give consent.
To compare it to homosexuality is different. Two consenting adults v.s. an adult and something/someone that cannot give consent. If you're going to say that two adult, grown-ass men having sex in privacy is the same as a pedophile coming into a home and abusing a small girl, I'm going to call you insane.

This is just my opinion, and I know some people won't like it one bit, but I have a right to it and a right to express it in civil discussion.
If this gets me an infraction, it was so worth it.

Strong as your opinion is, I don't think it's infraction worthy, though I do think you focused on Lark's homosexual referencing a bit too much instead of staying on topic. You have every right to express your opinion, just like you have the right to have one.. but please understand that your opinion is not the only way of things.
Men can enjoy cooking and still be men. You know that.. whereas, some people have the idea that only women should cook. The opinions on what constitutes a man are so diverse, about as diverse as anything else on earth.. so it makes no sense to just say "act like a man." What kind of man should you force males to act like? The asshole, I don't give a shit kind? The gentlemanly kind? The hard-working, rough necked kind? THe frat boy kind? The list goes on.
 
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Epiphany

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[YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tYAA285gY0"]MadTV - Gay Gangsters[/YOUTUBE]
 

DiscoBiscuit

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Some people feel men should be gentlemen.. opening doors for people, taking off hats inside of buildings, wearing suits to functions instead of lazy jeans, etc.

^ I was raised to be this. :yes:

Some people act like men should be hardheaded.. Ready to fight, ready to react, firm in their decisions and not backing down for anyone.

^ The world I grew up in has forced me to become this. :yes:
 
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Epiphany

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Some people act like men should be hardheaded.. Ready to fight, ready to react, firm in their decisions and not backing down for anyone.

The problem with men like this is that they are spontaneous, react too soon, make quick decisions that may not be the best solution and are too stubborn to reconsider because they have been brainwashed by society into believing that it's unmasculine to be thoughtful and considerate: the "shoot first, ask questions later" mentality which is more primal than civilized. It's not really an indication of masculinity.
 

DiscoBiscuit

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^ Srsly. :huh:

Your saying I'm inconsiderate and unthoughtful...

Not only that, your saying I don't have the mental fortitude to be these things of my own volition.

Your saying I have so little self respect that I would allow a culture (or anything but who I am) to determine how I act.

Who's being the dick now???
 
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Epiphany

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^ Srsly. :huh:

Your saying I'm inconsiderate and unthoughtful...

Not only that, your saying I don't have the mental fortitude to be these things of my own volition.

Your saying I have so little self respect that I would allow a culture (or anything but who I am) to determine how I act.

Who's being the dick now???

Not at all. If anything, you said this when you stated:

^ The world I grew up in has forced me to become this. :yes:

To a certain extent, everyone is influenced by the culture they grow up in. Some people embrace their culture's ideals, other people are repulsed by them or a combination of both. I definitely think that masculine stereotypes resemble neanderthals more than mature adult male homosapiens.
 

DiscoBiscuit

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I understand that you have had some less than enjoyable interactions with masculine males.

But just because you have encountered several maladjusted type A personalities does not mean that we are all bad people.

It's offends me to be lumped in with such miscreants just because I happen to be masculine.

It is who I am and I will not apologize... :p
 
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Epiphany

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I understand that you have had some less than enjoyable interactions with masculine males. But just because you have encountered several maladjusted type A personalities does not mean that we are all bad people.

I have? What interactions are you referring to?

Most of my opinions come from observation. I was at a zoo once and saw a primate throwing feces at another one. I'm pretty sure it was a Type A personality.


It's offends me to be lumped in with such miscreants just because I happen to be masculine.

It is who I am and I will not apologize... :p

I think your definition of masculinity is a bit askew, but you're entitled to that. By all accounts, I consider myself to be quite masculine. Whether anyone agrees with that is not of my concern.
 

DiscoBiscuit

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I have? What interactions are you referring to?

The eagerness with which you throw any positive assessment of a masculine male under the bus (in my most humble of opinions) belies some hurt at the hands or words of a masculine male at some point in your life.
 
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Epiphany

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The eagerness with which you throw any positive assessment of a masculine male under the bus (in my most humble of opinions) belies some hurt at the hands or words of a masculine male at some point in your life.

I don't recall ever throwing a "positive assessment of a masculine male" under the bus. I have expressed disagreement with what traits actually constitute masculinity, which tend to vary from culture to culture.
 

DiscoBiscuit

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This is a disagreement and a topic that you and I have found ourselves having again and again.

I was just making an observation...

You know the same kind you make about people...

It hurts going either way, so in the future try and not presume others to be assholes just because they happen to be masculine.

Those masculine guys have feelings too, and it hurts just as much when you walk all over them.
 

Nicodemus

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The eagerness with which you scrape any positive assessment of a masculine male from under the bus belies (in my most humble of opinions) some desire for the hands or words of a masculine male at some point in your life.
 

Vasilisa

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The eagerness with which you throw any positive assessment of a masculine male under the bus (in my most humble of opinions) belies some hurt at the hands or words of a masculine male at some point in your life.

Ooh, are we playing psychoanalyst! This INFJ wants to play! In my most humble of opinions, the way you take his impersonal posts about his views so bizarrely personally belies some frailty due to the fact that they strike a chord in you.


The problem with men like this is that they are spontaneous, react too soon, make quick decisions that may not be the best solution and are too stubborn to reconsider because they have been brainwashed by society into believing that it's unmasculine to be thoughtful and considerate: the "shoot first, ask questions later" mentality which is more primal than civilized. It's not really an indication of masculinity.
Hmmm, wonder where I could see a demonstration.
 

Totenkindly

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The eagerness with which you throw any positive assessment of a masculine male under the bus (in my most humble of opinions) belies some hurt at the hands or words of a masculine male at some point in your life.

I'm getting kind of confused, as I try to follow this line of conversation.

Can you clarify for me what the "positive assessment of a masculine male" is that you think is being denigrated in this thread, since a few have been put out there? I just want to make sure I am understanding what you're upset with.

kyuuei said:
To bring this back to topic. Bullies are the topic, afterall. The men in the OP who assumed him weird or off by carrying a satchel (a rather common instrument for men.. always has been historically) were acting because they were telling this man how he should do things. The reality is, they should disgree with it personally, but not force themselves on others.

I agree. I was kind of struck my YLJ comments, in that they seemed to align with the men being described in the OP: They have instinctive gut feelings about deviations from the masculine norm (tied into the "gay" issue, since for some reason they felt that carrying a satchel made a man gay), and that this behavior needed to be corrected because it was wrong, and they took pains to make sure that the person in question understood that he was breaking their ideas of masculinity and that -- without knowing anything else about him -- he was threatened with violence and disrespect.

I don't know how some people end up thinking they are the defenders of a particular social construct, and that gives them a right to declare someone else functioning just fine in society as "sick" and thus a viable target for their brand of visibly destructive/violent correction or else fostering attitudes that encourages such correction to be applied.
 

DiscoBiscuit

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If anyone else has a bone to pick hop in the thread while the gettins good!

political-pictures-come-at-me-bro.jpg
 

DiscoBiscuit

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I just want to make sure I am understanding what you're upset with.

The problem with men like this is that they are spontaneous, react too soon, make quick decisions that may not be the best solution and are too stubborn to reconsider because they have been brainwashed by society into believing that it's unmasculine to be thoughtful and considerate: the "shoot first, ask questions later" mentality which is more primal than civilized. It's not really an indication of masculinity.

Mask manifests immediate observation about how much men of my ilk suck (not in so many words), after I had posted that I am what my life has made me.
 
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