User Tag List

First 1234 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 81

  1. #11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    A lot of people have trouble viewing something as unhealthy and wrong without also vilifying, dismissing, or disenfranchising a condition for whom it might be viewed as part of their identity.
    I know, its something that annoys me, I know there's a hell of a lot of prejudice against people who are schizophrenic or bi-polar for instance and I've known a few who despite being difficult people were not anything like the folk tales. Now I know that some people would consider the analogy I just used insulting to homosexuals but likewise would others consider the comparison insulting to people with those psychological profiles.

    I think the bio-psychological explanation has become popular nowadays, just as in the '60's behavioralism was all the rage. It's not really clear what mix of conditions (genetic/bio, or environmental/social) creates a homosexual mindset, although I tend not to be dismissive of anything. Nor do I consider the element of maternal hormones and birth sequence to be chauvinist, since the reason it's considered as a possible contributor would exist regardless of whether the man or the woman was the carrier of the child.
    I'm not dismissive of it so far as I dont believe there is any evolved purpose to homosexuality, therefore dont see any innate purpose for people to be born any orientation other than heterosexual, they could well mature into something different or simply make a choice. I think that the innateness or born that way argument is a red herring, its been adopted in order to confer legitimacy which it doesnt.

    Some people could be born psychopaths but they arent encouraged to act that way and its spread normatively isnt supported. I'm not making a straight comparison, I'm simply presenting a logical point and counterpoint.

    I've seen the innateness point used in a male chauvinistic manner in NI, I've heard males suggest that homosexuality is more or less "the womans fault", producing too much estragen (spelling) while the child is in the womb, it doesnt account for female homosexuality at all but to the same males that would simply be a laughing matter its male homosexuality that they take issue with, whether that's in a vitriolic attack on it or an equally vehement approval or statement that they "have no issue" and "no one else should". Its not an uncomplicated topic and its shot through with sexism I reckon.

    Regardless, as you have noted, violence is not acceptable.
    Absolutely. I cant stand bullies.

    Why, because you think metrosexuals are or "look" gay?
    Why even toss this in?
    Mentioned by the original poster.

    Guys definitely did not want to be seen as "fags" though. I'm not sure what it was. It might have even been less the sexual connotation than just the idea that the guy was weak, girlish, effeminate, not tough or strong, a real "priss" in their eyes. Yet one of my friends in hs, a pretty flamboyant queer, never really seemed to get beat up. It was like they didn't consider it worth their time because he was SO overt. maybe it's the ones who were more in the middle who were considered threatening... or maybe they thought they could "save" somehow.
    See this is what interests me, some of the good feminist and masculinites writing has addressed this, sexism and power come into play. Although its too convoluted a topic to go into in thread, it would bring into play the whole butch and fems trend among both the male and female homosexual community.

    Honestly, based the situation you describe, I'm more inclined to think they're partly just bored with their lives, resentful that you're doing something that might bring in money, education represents 'liberalism' to some forms of conservative america and so you're getting lumped in with those sorts of political values, etc. They did it because they could, and because they are unhappy with their lives, and because there were a number of them, and because they wanted to take out their frustrations on someone. They're bullies.
    Yeah, going to cosmic order their assasination or something.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Forever_Jung's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Enneagram
    6
    Posts
    2,340

    Default

    Thanks for your concern guys, though I didn't want to turn this into a pity thread, but re-reading what I wrote, it does kind of beg that interpretation (It basically reads: Big bad men beat me up, why!?).

    Quote Originally Posted by man View Post
    University is more man that for woman in historical context !!!
    True, but nowadays more women than men are getting undergraduate and Masters degrees.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chunes View Post
    WTF?

    Get the hell away from wherever you are and never go back.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    haven't read anything else yet but my god does that piss me off! omg i wish i was a guy so i could spend my time fucking up ignorant pricks like that....hmmhmm...excuse me.

    omg i hope you plan to move after school.
    Haha, this is my last year and I will finish my schooling in the capital of my province, which will be much nicer

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    Good grief, do you live in hillbilly central or something? Are there a lot of good banjo players in the area? Anyway, to answer your questions... The word gay is used a mild, almost childish insult, as in "That's so gay". If someone wants to cause serious offence, they would be more likely to go for fag or puffter. University is acceptable for both sexes - almost too much in fact! Sometimes I think the country needs fewer graduates and more tradesman.
    My grandfather is actually a very proficient banjo player, so it's kind of funny you said that. Also, I think you're right about the trades thing. We are telling every student that CAN get into university that they SHOULD get into university, even if they would be much happier and skilled at a trade. Not just for their sake, but it also causes academic inflation, and BA's don't seem to be worth nearly as much as they did in "the old days".

    For all that, though, there is a certain amount of macho bullshit, but nothing like as much as what you seem to be experiencing. I haven't seen much since I left school, but I do remember one occation since then. We were at home, sitting in the kitchen. when a mouse ran across the floor and under the sink, amongst all the clutter down there. The girl I has sitting with started shouting "Kill it! Kill it!" Frankly, I couldn't be bothered. There was a gap behind the the cupboards, so by the time I'd manage to shift all the stuff out of the way, that rodent would have been long gone.

    In short, there was no way in hell I was going to start crawling around on my knees trying to catch that stupid mouse. Just put some traps down, OK? It wasn't OK, and she turned round to me and said "A real man would have done it." I just just snorted derisively and gave her my stfu look. She didn't bother me with thaat sort of bullshit again.


    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    I really just have to say that I think it's cool how you can go through that and still end up making it into an entertaining post with slight comedic value.
    Thank you, personal problems is always fecund soil for storytelling.

    Lark:

    First of all I am not going to press charges, because it's not worth bringing further punishment upon myself. These guys are considered "good boys", who just get into a little trouble now and then. Boys will be boys they'll say, so I would just end up looking bad in my community and inviting further bullying from the rest of their likes. I guess my biggest mistake was walking home alone, because my good friend is a 6'3" mountain man kind of guy, so he is usually enough of a deterrent.

    I am not sure what I make of the "causes" or "reasons" of homosexuality (I never thought of it as a choice myself, but I guess since I'm not gay I don't know). Most gay people I know of say it isn't though. I also don't believe "being soft" with a child will make them gay. However, I don't know too much about it scientifically so I will stay out of it. I will say I have no problems with metrosexuals either, but some of them make me feel bad about my lack of style I am glad you at least don't think they deserve abuse.

    Also to clarify I am not from the U.S., it may seem dinky to clarify this point, but I am one of those Canadians who feels the need to always say: "Hey, we're our own country even if we have many similarities!" Not that there's anything wrong with the States, I just always feel the need to pipe in about our identity, forgive me this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I think the bio-psychological explanation has become popular nowadays, just as in the '60's behavioralism was all the rage. It's not really clear what mix of conditions (genetic/bio, or environmental/social) creates a homosexual mindset, although I tend not to be dismissive of anything. Nor do I consider the element of maternal hormones and birth sequence to be chauvinist, since the reason it's considered as a possible contributor would exist regardless of whether the man or the woman was the carrier of the child.
    +1 and I especially like the comparison with behaviorism.


    FJ, I can empathize with you and what happened, and it shouldn't have. I do live in "Pennsyltucky" as Mercury called it, but it's not quite redneck enough where just going to college is a beatable offense... although I think a satchel might attract some hoots depending on the guys in question. When I was growing up, early in school "smarts" were actually admired. It was later in school (starting in middle) where braniacs were picked on, but as long as you weren't presumptuous about it or acted like you were better -- i.e., talked down to earth and were fun to be with -- people eventually by high school either let you alone or were positively inclined. At that point, people were also veering into their own career paths -- a lot of vo-tech in my area, then community college, and then a minority of college prep.

    Guys definitely did not want to be seen as "fags" though. I'm not sure what it was. It might have even been less the sexual connotation than just the idea that the guy was weak, girlish, effeminate, not tough or strong, a real "priss" in their eyes. Yet one of my friends in hs, a pretty flamboyant queer, never really seemed to get beat up. It was like they didn't consider it worth their time because he was SO overt. maybe it's the ones who were more in the middle who were considered threatening... or maybe they thought they could "save" somehow.

    Honestly, based the situation you describe, I'm more inclined to think they're partly just bored with their lives, resentful that you're doing something that might bring in money, education represents 'liberalism' to some forms of conservative america and so you're getting lumped in with those sorts of political values, etc. They did it because they could, and because they are unhappy with their lives, and because there were a number of them, and because they wanted to take out their frustrations on someone. They're bullies.
    Thanks It's interesting you should mention about the overtly gay guy never getting beat up, this rings true where I live. In my town there is "the village homosexual", and no one EVER bothers him, which was always funny to me, but I think you're right, stating the obvious seems pointless, even to dumb jerks.

    This article in The Onion really reminds me of this phenomenon:

    Let Us Identify The Faggots And Then Inform Them Of Their Status | The Onion - America's Finest News Source

  3. #13
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    MBTI
    intp
    Enneagram
    5
    Posts
    1,292

    Default

    I know what you mean OP though luckily I've always lived in cities. But I have cousins who are in the Catholic fundamentalist group Opus Dei. They used to go to the red light district and drive their car at transvestites for fun.

    They aren't impressed that I've become a communist and believe in open relationships.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Forever_Jung's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Enneagram
    6
    Posts
    2,340

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    I know what you mean OP though luckily I've always lived in cities. But I have cousins who are in the Catholic fundamentalist group Opus Dei. They used to go to the red light district and drive their car at transvestites for fun.

    They aren't impressed that I've become a communist and believe in open relationships.
    HAHA wow, no I don't imagine they would be! Opus Dei scares me sometimes, but I can't say I know them so well as to condemn them in good conscience.

  5. #15
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    MBTI
    intp
    Enneagram
    5
    Posts
    1,292

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Forever_Jung View Post
    HAHA wow, no I don't imagine they would be! Opus Dei scares me sometimes, but I can't say I know them so well as to condemn them in good conscience.
    You should read The Way. It owuld be funny, but poor children are brought up on this book, which is the supposed guide to the passage to adulthood.

    Opus Dei - writings of the founder
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Ming's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    2w3
    Socionics
    ENFP
    Posts
    491

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Forever_Jung View Post
    Okay this may be in the wrong forum, if so, I apologize. Also, don't worry, there IS a point to all this. Well I think so at least.

    I got pseudo-mugged the other day. See, I live in a rural area, and I made the mistake of wearing my laptop bag/school bag around town after coming home from the large city to which I commute. Why was this a mistake? Well, since the bag is slung across your shoulder it does vaguely resemble a purse despite its size. The fine gentleman who loiter in parking lots all day by their beaten up pick-ups to discuss cognac, Voltaire and running over small animals with ATV's noticed this resemblance. Using their nuanced knowledge of gender roles they began to recognize a problem: That is a guy, but he is wearing something that looks like a purse...how can this be?

    I was then approached by several of these bulky, plaid-clad, 20-something miscreants so they could clarify this discrepancy. By which I mean I was treated to physical confrontation and a series of less than polite inquiries about the nature of my gender and/or sexual orientation. I would prefer not to reproduce these statements on this forum, however I will tell you I got a mild thrashing and my bag was a bit worse for wear. I am relatively unperturbed however, being accustomed to such incidents (I would pick on me too, were I a ruffian, what with my glasses and reputation for being a spaced-out, socially awkward person).

    Now I realize it may be unfair to ask this to people who live in more "progressive" surroundings, but do you encounter a lot of macho bullshit in your life? Some of my family members have even questioned my manhood because I am attending university (I am the first member of my family to attend university, and my father has a sixth grade education), which begs the question: Why is university unacceptable for men? Also is "gay" treated like an insult where you come from? What do you think is the root of all this behaviour? Whatever other thoughts you conjure up on the matter I would be most interested in seeing them.
    Literally. F*CK THOSE ASSHOLES.Are they f*cking stupid? God, I HATE people like those.. I swear one day, I will rape each one of them, and make them enjoy the shit out of it. (Okay, the last line was a joke, don't take it seriously )

    Who cares how you wear/hold something? For God's sake it's a FUCKING LAPTOP. Wearing it ON YOUR SHOULDER IS NOT GOING TO FUCKING KILL ANYBODY. So if I was a girl, but I wore something that 'boys' wear, does that mean I'm a lesbian? THOSE PEOPLE NEED TO GROW UP! ARE THEY STILL KIDS? DO THEY HAVE A FREAKIN' BRAIN?

    No! Be perturbed. Because that is realization, and that incurs understanding!!

    Macho bullshit? Hell yes, but I just push it off my shoulder. I incur it all the time, because I'm gay (though I'm kinda still in the closet, only out to close people). Frankly, I don't care. Why transform because of what other's expectations of you are? So If I wanted you to be a beggar, would you be one, if you didn't want to? Roles are things other people put for YOU to do. And because you are YOU, don't listen, unless of course, you trust/believe their advice. That's a whole different story...

    Yes. 'Gay' is used as an insult. Though, I believe children of the iGen really shrugs it off. Even I use it to describe something that is 'lame' or 'out-of-date'; it's a fad. It really isn't taken seriously in the younger generations, and people accept homosexuality (at least my friends do). In the older generations, especially the '60s, with the disease AIDS being taught all around the world...

    When people see a problem, they always have to shift the blame on someone else. It's a way of life. And AIDS was inflicted on the 'gay' community. If you're gay, you have AIDS. If you're gay, you made AIDS. If you're gay, you need to be destroyed. If you're gay, you're the problem of everything, and I am not, because I am normal. People love me, and shower me with gifts, I have power and I get to tease someone to boost my ego up, because I am not gay. Gays are the worst race in society, where as mine is the best. See how easy it is when you shift the blame to someone else?

    Here in Sydney, I live is one of the most gay-friendly areas in the world.

    I think the root of all this behaviour is just.. the will of others. People always want to belong, and they follow the crowds. Once you follow the crowd, you stick to it. And people follow what they want to hear, not what is really there. That brings up ignorance, and eventually it gets deeper and deeper. People start fights, and they forget the point of them joining right in the beginning of all of this..

    My thoughts on homosexuality.. I didn't wish to become gay. What's so good about being teased, a minority, a weakness in life? But I am proud, because I am WHO I AM, and I am strong within the heart and myself. Even though I feel lonely at times, I am a warrior, unlike the people who follow crowds to give themselves a feeling of power. I think people who are gay present 'gay pride' like this, and other people think they are trying to 'flaunt it'. But I think it is a way of showing that we are ourselves, and we won't back down! It is not easy, but life is an excitement this way..

    I think that's why females like us. It's 'cause we're understanding, smart, and most of us are absolute stunners in bed and looks and sex. Who wants a beer gut, when you can get an almighty hunk ? Who wants a person who just watches sport while the females do the dishes/act like a freakin' slave, when you can have someone who understands, talks with you and shares the duties...

    Sorry for rambling on (It's getting long!).. Gender roles in society is a way to cover up our insecurities. If I'm macho, then people won't see the weaknesses I have. It's almost like whether you are attractive or not. If I'm attractive, then I will have the easier way of life. If I follow what everyone else does, I will have guidance, and I will make it through life easy. It's really all just a matter of perspective.. That's why people think that it's good to follow. I don't disagree, but I like to do something that makes ME happy. That might mean I want to act more masculine/feminine, but if it makes ME happy, why not? If hiding insecurities makes you feel more SAFE and HAPPY, why not?

    I'll post more later (I have a lot more but I think I might drown people too much with my Aquarian brain )

  7. #17
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    enfp
    Enneagram
    8
    Posts
    13,877

    Default

    *revive.* All the time dear. Macho bullshit is what costs me a lot of potential friendships.
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
    Halla74: Think your way through the world. Feel your way through life.

    Cimarron: maybe Prpl will be your girl-bud
    prplchknz: i don't like it

    In Search Of... ... Kiwi Sketch Art ... Dream Journal ... Kyuuei's Cook book ... Kyu's Tiny House Blog ... Minimalist Challenge ... Kyu's Savings Challenge

  8. #18
    Tempbanned
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Enneagram
    8w9
    Posts
    14,031

    Default

    Bullies used to get my goat until about age 15 when I grew.

    Now I enjoy pounding (verbally or physically) on bullies however large where ever I can find them.

  9. #19
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    enfp
    Enneagram
    8
    Posts
    13,877

    Default

    ^ I enjoy that show where they get bullies up against MMA fighters.
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
    Halla74: Think your way through the world. Feel your way through life.

    Cimarron: maybe Prpl will be your girl-bud
    prplchknz: i don't like it

    In Search Of... ... Kiwi Sketch Art ... Dream Journal ... Kyuuei's Cook book ... Kyu's Tiny House Blog ... Minimalist Challenge ... Kyu's Savings Challenge

  10. #20
    Tempbanned
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Enneagram
    8w9
    Posts
    14,031

    Default

    Bully beat down.

Similar Threads

  1. J vs P Ignore List
    By prplchknz in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 01-17-2008, 04:41 AM
  2. Posturing and Machismo
    By ygolo in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 56
    Last Post: 01-17-2008, 04:08 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO