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  1. #1
    Senior Member compulsiverambler's Avatar
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    Default ADHD/xxxP spot the difference game.

    Can't post videos of myself due to technophobia so the only footage I have (as everything else on Youtube seems to be of medicated or soley inattentive adult AD/HDers, who look normal until you have them perform certain kinds of tasks) to share of actual hyperactive symptoms in adults is the piece below. Watch from 7:04 of this video, the interview with Beverley. The way she sits leaning forwards and tense, doesn't make prolonged eye contact, pauses a lot and fidgets unceasingly is how I am when I have to sit and focus on something (except typing and web surfing, for which I rock backwards and forwards constantly and play with my lips ears and hands, leap up now and then and look even worse ). It's unconscious self-stimulation: movement, muscular tension and leaning forwards all have subtle positive influences on the bloodflow, chemistry and brainwaves of the prefrontal cortex. My speech is more hurried and clumsy than hers, but other than that our mannerisms are very similar. I would be surprised if we were the same MB type though, she likes DIY. :eek:

    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxNxIJ7rzw8"]7:04 onwards, adult with ADHD[/YOUTUBE]

    Now compare with a typical (and apparently neurotypical) ENFP.

    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1JyXOljBwU"]ENFP's experience of being ENFP[/YOUTUBE]

    Believe it or not, some people manage to confuse these concepts.

  2. #2
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    i already told you like months ago.
    ADHD doesn't exist.
    we fukin won boys

  3. #3
    Geolectric teslashock's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure that ADHD/ADD is just a typical problem for EPs. Extroverted perception thrives on novel experiences/ideas from the external environment, so EPs tend to become bored and restless when our ideas/experiences start to become "typical" (and thus less novel). That yields in us a relentless search for different stimuli and a subsequent lack of focus on anything that's not "novel."

    That being said, I can see why extroverted perception and ADHD are often confused, as the very essence of these two concepts are quite intertwined. I can't really pay attention to those videos enough to compare the ENFP's mannerisms with the ADHD woman's, but do you really think physical mannerisms are a good way of discerning the difference between ADHD and extroverted perception in the first place?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nocap View Post
    i already told you like months ago.
    ADHD doesn't exist.
    And ummmm, what???

    They've correlated ADHD with atypical brain anatomy and hormone levels...

    I believe they've found that children with ADHD have abnormalities in their prefrontal and frontal cortices. They've also found that those with ADHD have lower than normal serotonin levels (the hormone that is responsible for impulse control). Also, I think I remember reading somewhere that there's a dopamine receptor polymorphism that has been linked to ADHD.

    Since there are physiological differences between those we deem as having ADHD and those we don't (and those we deem as having ADHD experience impairment in daily activities), doesn't this suggest that ADHD is a legitimate medical disorder?

  4. #4
    Senior Member compulsiverambler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teslashock View Post
    I'm pretty sure that ADHD/ADD is just a typical problem for EPs. Extroverted perception thrives on novel experiences/ideas from the external environment, so EPs tend to become bored and restless when our ideas/experiences start to become "typical" (and thus less novel). That yields in us a relentless search for different stimuli and a subsequent lack of focus on anything that's not "novel."
    Well that's a good description of 'boredom', but AD/HD involves many more cognitive quirks than just getting bored easily. A Humanmetrics test poll on the biggest AD/HD webforum showed the same distribution of types that we have here (ie most common INFPs and INTPs, least common but still present were ESTJs and ESFJs). Just the usual spread of types found on these kinds of fora.

    That being said, I can see why extroverted perception and ADHD are often confused, as the very essence of these two concepts are quite intertwined. I can't really pay attention to those videos enough to compare the ENFP's mannerisms with the ADHD woman's, but do you really think physical mannerisms are a good way of discerning the difference between ADHD and extroverted perception in the first place?
    That's not what I was trying to do. I don't think you can tell whether someone has primary extroverted perception from their mannerisms (and the lady might have, of course), but you can tell the difference between an animated or enthusiastic persona and wide gesticulation, and compulsive fidgeting from physical restlessness. Sometimes the two coincide, sometimes they don't.

    What I'm pointing out is that AD/HD doesn't look like any particular MB type: most ExxPs do not act as hyperactive AD/HDers act, but some people don't know this as they have false notions about what clinical hyperactivity actually is and looks like, especially in adults. For most ExxPs, their so-called 'hyperactivity' is nothing more than healthy enthusiasm and efforts to keep everything upbeat or exciting, and I as a true hyperactive person happen to not be like that at all: it's not in my personality to get visibly excited about things very often. As I said, I am at least as physically restless as this lady, and I'm really quite introverted. Being alone (which I'm fine with, for days at a time) is not the same as being motionless (which is torture, even for a second).

  5. #5
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by compulsiverambler View Post
    ADHD/xxxP spot the difference game.
    There isn't one. ADHD and ADD cause Perceiving behavior.
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  6. #6
    Geolectric teslashock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by compulsiverambler View Post
    Well that's a good description of 'boredom', but AD/HD involves many more cognitive quirks than just getting bored easily. A Humanmetrics test poll on the biggest AD/HD webforum showed the same distribution of types that we have here (ie most common INFPs and INTPs, least common but still present were ESTJs and ESFJs). Just the usual spread of types found on these kinds of fora.
    Well sure. ADHD is not defined by a penchant for getting bored. However, those with ADHD or ADD are characterized as being easily distracted, have trouble focusing on one thing for an extended length of time, and fail to pay attention to narrow details.

    EPs, on the other hand, are often bored by focusing on things for an extended length of time and honing in on narrow details, so they inadvertantly let themselves become distracted from repetitive tasks and detailed work that requires a lot of focus. Therefore, EPs and those with ADHD/ADD have similar behavioral characteristics. Their behaviors may not be manifestations of the same psychological traits, but nontheless, the two do resemble each other outwardly.

    For this reason, it can be easy to mistake ADHD/ADD with Pe. Furthermore, for this reason, many Pe-doms may be diagnosed with ADD/ADHD.

    I never meant to imply that all EPs have ADD/ADHD, that most people with ADD/ADHD are EPs, or that ADHD/ADD and Pe go hand-in-hand. The two do have overlapping characteristics, however.

    That's not what I was trying to do. I don't think you can tell whether someone has primary extroverted perception from their mannerisms (and the lady might have, of course), but you can tell the difference between an animated or enthusiastic persona and wide gesticulation, and compulsive fidgeting from physical restlessness. Sometimes the two coincide, sometimes they don't.
    Is an animated, enthusiastic physical persona a defining characteristic of ADHD/ADD or Pe?

    What I'm pointing out is that AD/HD doesn't look like any particular MB type...
    I'd say that the behavioral criteria by which ADD/ADHD is defined somewhat resembles the general trends in behavior that we see in ExxPs (especially ENxPs). Again, that doesn't mean that all ADHD/ADD-ers are ExxPs or that all ExxPs have ADD/ADHD. It just means that extroverted perception and/or extroverted intuition seems to fall more in line with the diagnostic criteria for ADD/ADHD than any other function.

  7. #7
    Senior Member compulsiverambler's Avatar
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    We are in agreement about everything in the above post, except that I don't think the two look quite as similar as you do. I know that lay persons often misidentify one as the other, it's a pet hate of mine, and my point is that that confusion could be avoided if people knew what hyperactivity actually looks like, the patterns in which it can ebb and flow each day (for example I don't know anybody who is ExxP every morning and evening and becomes IxxJ in the middle of the day, but it's fairly common for adult hyperactivity to come and go in that fashion) and how it is experienced and described by affected individuals (once old enough to articulate it).
    Quote Originally Posted by teslashock View Post
    Is an animated, enthusiastic physical persona a defining characteristic of ADHD/ADD or Pe?
    Neither, but a lot of Pe-doms do have such a persona, and because they are often informally called 'hyperactive' some people imagine that that's what meant by hyperactivity in a clinical context as well.

  8. #8
    Senior Member durentu's Avatar
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    ADHD is about low dopamine and there's a genetic component.

    Attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder
    Dopamine receptors have been recognized as important components in the etiology of ADHD for many years. Drugs used to treat ADHD, including methylphenidate and amphetamine, have significant effects on dopamine signaling in the brain. Studies of gene association have implicated several genes within dopamine signaling pathways; in particular, the D4.7 variant of D4 has been consistently shown to be more frequent in ADHD patients.[20] ADHD patients with the 4.7 allele also tend to have better cognitive performance and long-term outcomes compared to ADHD patients without the 4.7 allele, suggesting that the allele is associated with a more benign form of ADHD.[20]
    The D4.7 allele has suppressed gene expression compared to other variants.[21]
    Dopamine receptor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



    comparison of brain scans



    edit:

    I also found this which is interesting
    [YOUTUBE="UV_w0qmgyfw"]Penmanship, music, neuroplasticity for ADHD[/YOUTUBE]

  9. #9
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    Two of my younger brothers have ADHD. Both of them Judgers.
    A search for truth is a search for a greedy perspective.

    Nah, that's not truth. That's just your bullshit ideas of truth. Truth is always inclusive. If it's not inclusive, then toughen it up and try harder.

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