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  1. #41
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    Getting in on the fun here, although I really don't have the time.



    How can you support the bolded?
    In short, FiTe believes internal value judgments should be made according to personal ethical values, while TiFe believes they should be made according to impersonal logic.

    To FiTe, the idea of changing your feelings according to external standards is insincere and offensive. FiTe doesn't see how impersonal judgments can be made internally without external influence.

    TiFe believes the same thing about changing your ideas regarding impersonal reasoning according to external standards, and doesn't see how ethical value judgments can be made without external influence.

    This is the best explanation I have seen:

    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau
    Fi is selfish, but what people often don't realize is that Ti is just as selfish. For shorthand, let us call the entities that Fi processes "feelings" and the entities that Ti processes "ideas."

    Fi users predominantly use Te, and Ti users predominantly use Fe. So Fi is selfish about feelings, but unselfish about ideas. Ti is selfish about ideas, but not selfish about feelings.

    For Fi users, it's about what I feel, what I feel, what I feel. For Ti users, it's all about what I think, what I think, what I think.

    Fe/Ti tries to communicate with Fi, but can get stuck on this selfishness crosstalk. Fe's feelings are shared: feelings are precisely how you connect with other people. If you're not sharing your feelings, if you do not adjust your feelings to accomodate others, you're being selfish. But remember, this is all because Fe is a primary communication tool: by hiding one's own feelings, by not adjusting one's own feelings in response to others, of course it looks selfish to Fe.

    However, the same thing is true between Te and Ti. When I talk with someone using Te, there is a free flow of ideas. The ideas change and alter on the fly, we work together to develop new ideas, to share ideas. We connect and communicate via ideas. Enter the Ti user, who alternately seems like a brick wall, black hole, or source of technically correct and accurate but useless and noncommunicative information (think Microsoft Technical Support). With Te, I can't tell a Ti user a damn thing. I present ideas to the Ti user, who only procedes to pick them apart, accuse me of being inconsistant or incomplete or shallow. In the meantime, I hardly get any clue what the Ti user thinks. I get no "hooks" with which to show him where he might have some bad assumptions. He rejects my ideas based on his bad assumptions, and keeps on saying things like, "I don't understand how that could be true," and leaving me without a clue on which stupid idea he has in his head that makes him possibly think it couldn't be true. Why? Because he has to figure it all out for himself, selfish bastard. He can't trust even for a moment that I might be correct.

    Thing is, though, that's just my impression. What really goes on is that he is self-doubting. He is unsure. But it's Ti, so he doesn't express it. He's Ti, so he has a lot of trouble expressing his confusion. If his ideas are wrong, then there is something seriously wrong with him, and he's going to take a long time to refigure them out.

    Now, reverse that, and that's how Fe/Ti views us. Their feelings aren't shallow, they just feel that way to us. They share and develop feelings together, with other people as a means of connecting, and Fi users refuse that connection, which hurts them. We reject their feelings (because we feel they're "forcing them on us"), and that hurts them. We wish them happiness and all sorts of abstract positive things, but we don't respond to their particular feelings, which hurts them.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  2. #42
    Ginkgo
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    Ok, well...

    I don't really make long term plans. I tend to absorb as much knowledge as possible to facilitate my decisions. I can act extemporaneously, but I also make mental plans for the day. I'm pretty terrible at commitments, really. I enjoy a certain amount of structure in my daily life, but not so much that it's suffocating. Long range planning feels like I'm being confined, literally. Like I'm blind-sighted. However, there have been a few times in my life when I garnered enough motivation to put forth a plan. Those times were characterized by ardent passion for doing one thing or another, usually for helping those who are close to me. Sometimes competition helps too. But that's only because I've armored myself with an esteem like "I can do this no matter what gets in my way". This is very rare though. I'm much more comfortable with short term planning, and sometimes I even enjoy it when nature takes its course and diverts everyone's long range plans out of the way. Like if there's rain or a thunderstorm that prevents people from going about their normal routine. Sometimes not though. It's a very contextual thing.

    EDIT: There is a particular "balancing" thing that I do when I weigh the pros and cons of long term and short term decisions. It's a very rational approach.

  3. #43
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post

    So when you've shown one of my positions to be incorrect, how do you propose I respond? If I continue insisting that my incorrect position is correct, I'm an idiot, but if I concede that I was incorrect and revise my position, I'm "full of shit."

    What option am I left with? This goes back to your insistence on defining my positions for me. When you refuse to believe someone's descriptions of his own beliefs, the whole communication process breaks down. I don't have any idea how to respond to that.
    I'm not interested in you conceding anything to me. That's win-lose, childish, bullshit.
    I'm a knowledge junkie, not a superficial twit who thinks one-upping another forum member makes them "smart."

    I'm done with this thread.
    Go talk to yourself.

  4. #44
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    I'm not interested in you conceding anything to me. That's win-lose, childish, bullshit.
    I'm a knowledge junkie, not a superficial twit who thinks one-upping another forum member makes them "smart."

    I'm done with this thread.
    Go talk to yourself.
    Uh...I'm confused. I tried to admit that my previous interpretation was flawed and now you're complaining that I'm trying to one-up you to look smart?

    If you're not concerned with one-upping people, why do you repeatedly show up in threads and complain that my current model is inconsistent with one I used in the past? I really honestly do not understand this. I am freely admitting that my 4-function model was wrong. What else am I supposed to say?
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  5. #45
    Ginkgo
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    C'mon guyz, let's just like... hug each other until our disputes are crushed between us.


  6. #46
    Pumpernickel
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    This thread is now about Miley Cyrus.




  7. #47
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustHer View Post
    This thread is now about Miley Cyrus.



    FUCK THAT SHIT I'M BREAKING OUT MY MP40!


  8. #48
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Why is she so unattractive?
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  9. #49
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    I am freely admitting that my 4-function model was wrong. What else am I supposed to say?
    Nothing.

  10. #50
    Pumpernickel
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    because her father is Billy Rae Cyrus...and that man still has a mullet

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