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  1. #51
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Both points are true. (Although I think then she's suggesting that, if true scientifically, they're no longer stereotypes).
    Yes. I should have omitted the word Such and it would have been clearer, though I think most understood my meaning.

    So in these instances the difference between a stereotype and a generalization is the inclusion of qualifying phrases that signal a generalization, rather than just offering what can be assumed to be a generalized truth?
    A generalization is usually true. A stereotype isnt necessarily true at all, its just a belief. It may not even be subjectively true. At best, its an example of weak inductive reasoning, along the lines of

    Every man I've ever observed is stronger than me
    I'm a woman
    Therefore, men are stronger than women
    This is an invalid argument, albeit based on observation of "fact".

    "Men are stronger than women because testosterone makes them stronger. is essentially deductive reasoning:

    Testosterone makes an individual stronger by increasing muscle strength and mass.
    Men have more testosterone than women.
    Therefore:
    Men are stronger than women.

    This argument is still an overly simplistic generalization but is valid. The premises can be tested and are falsifiable. This model can be used predictively (assuming the premises are proven). e.g. One would expect that a women taking testosterone supplements will be stronger than one who does not. Or if an individual woman is found to have higher testosterone levels than an individual man, one would expect her to be the stronger of the two (if not, we have to find another explanation). We leave the world of the stereotype behind. We are now in the land of cause and effect, of science. We discover that man and woman are incidental. Hormones are the key. As FireyPheonix points out, stereotypes are only useful when we dont have a better way of modeling our environment. Knowledge makes them redundant.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  2. #52
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity View Post
    It's claimed by some that: "All stereotypes are based on some truths or facts".

    Personally I think that's a load of crap as I believe there are stereotypes that are based on nothing but ignorance or lack of understanding, but what say yee? Do you believe that all stereotypes are an exaggeration of some truth? Support your stance if you can.
    I agree with you, Trin.
    This is why I blast people that use stereotypes based sheerly on ignorance.
    Stereotypes are rarely useful, they cause more harm than good.
    --------------------
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  3. #53
    Senior Member ObliviousExistence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    They don't even have that. They are effectively untested hypotheses. Folk wisdom. As wise or as stupid as the folk who invented them. And many comprise a set of assumptions or attributes which are impossible to verify.
    true, most are just pure prejudice. In my own experience though, its always funny when I see walking stereotypes. I've had first hand experience with many different cultures and groups and in most cases the stereotypes tend to be true. Also, people within a social often have stereotypes of their own group.
    "He was free, free in every way, free to behave like a fool or a machine, free to accept, free to refuse, free to equivocate; to marry, to give up the game, to drag this death weight about with him for years to come. He could do what he liked, no one had the right to advise him, there would be for him no Good or Evil unless he thought them into being." JP Sartre

  4. #54
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
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    I think stereotypes are mostly about making the stereotyper comfortable, some people can't stand ambiguity and a stereotype gives people some structure to hang on to even if it's false they'll still hang on to it as it makes them feel good.

    I also think people underestimate their own ability to see what they expect to see rather than what actually is, so they will mostly take note of things that confirm their previous (most comforting) assumptions and ignore exceptions.
    Act your age not your enneagram number.

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  5. #55
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Every stereotype is based on some grain of truth, but they're typically exaggerated and applied to too many situations. It's a mistake to assume that the stereotype will describe any given person in the group.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  6. #56
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Every stereotype is based on some grain of truth, but they're typically exaggerated and applied to too many situations.
    Did you read the thread, and if so why do you say a stereotype is based on some grain of truth rather than perception?

  7. #57
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity View Post
    Did you read the thread, and if so why do you say a stereotype is based on some grain of truth rather than perception?
    Because there wouldn't be enough people perceiving it that way to generate a well-known stereotype if it weren't.

    "Grain of truth" means just that--a little bit of truth. Often, stereotypes don't apply to the majority of people in a group, but if they hold true for more people in that group than random chance would dictate, then there's some grain of truth there.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  8. #58
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Because there wouldn't be enough people perceiving it that way to generate a well-known stereotype if it weren't.
    You think people are too smart and prone to independent thinking and research for that?

  9. #59
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity View Post
    You think people are too smart and prone to independent thinking and research for that?
    No, I just think any given stereotype wouldn't exist at all if there wasn't some small degree of truth to it. There'd just be nowhere for it to come from.

    Of course, it goes without saying that any given stereotype is incorrect if you try to apply it to every single person in the group in question, or even a majority of them...just that it's true of people from that group more often than people from most other comparable groups.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  10. #60
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    No, I just think any given stereotype wouldn't exist at all if there wasn't some small degree of truth to it. There'd just be nowhere for it to come from.
    It could come from not understanding, if one person can look at another and misinterpret X to mean Y and create a basis to stereotype all people in that group of people, then why is it that a group of people couldn't do the same and therefore create a stereotype based on their perspective which is based on misunderstanding?

    Of course, it goes without saying that any given stereotype is incorrect if you try to apply it to every single person in the group in question, or even a majority of them...just that it's true of people from that group more often than people from most other comparable groups.
    So stereotypes are based on a grain of truth and they're more likely to be true for people of that group than other groups? Sounds like they're based on more than just a "grain of truth" if they cover that group more than any other comparable group.

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