User Tag List

First 34567 Last

Results 41 to 50 of 89

  1. #41
    meh Salomé's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    10,540

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by saslou View Post

    I think stereotypes will always exist no matter how much people say they don't stereotype, as reality is only an illusion to the individual. Everyone puts meaning to their experiences be it true or not. So what is reality? As everyone has a different view of it. Sames goes with stereotyping.
    Stereotyping isn't everyone having a different view. Quite the opposite.

    Agree that they are an inevitable result of the way human cognition works at a primitive level. Probably because people who think like this:

    "That snake bit me"
    Ergo "All snakes bite"
    Ergo "Must kill every snake I see"

    outlived people who think like this:

    "That snake bit me"
    "I wonder if all snakes bite?"
    "Let me just find another snake and check that..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  2. #42
    Senior Member durentu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Socionics
    INTp
    Posts
    413

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    Nope. My point stands without illustration. To conclude that truth is "what most people believe" is sloppy at best, dangerous at worst.
    without illustration? lol ok

    argumentum ad ignorantiam.

  3. #43
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5/8
    Socionics
    ENTp None
    Posts
    4,754

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ConstantlyImagining View Post
    Stereotypes typically involve taking what one sees as a general pattern in a demographic group- whether observed first hand or otherwise- and erroneously apply it to every member of said demographic group. All stereotypes are wrong- both logically and,in some cases, ethically. For example to say that men are stronger than women is a stereotype and thus wrong.

    However, if one were to say that men are generally stronger than women, then that may be considered a proper generalisation and thus accurate and further more ethical.
    I'm not concerned with ethics. I'm concerned with science.

    If you can refute the scientific assertion that men are naturally physically stronger than women due to an advantage in testosterone / muscle production, then please do so. If not, you're obfuscating.

    And, don't cherry-pick for semantics. It cheapens your argument.

  4. #44
    Senior Member ObliviousExistence's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    MBTI
    loco
    Enneagram
    5W4
    Posts
    178

    Default

    if a person takes stereotypes as facts then it indicates ignorance. Stereotypes are based on generalizations and as such have only probability value.
    "He was free, free in every way, free to behave like a fool or a machine, free to accept, free to refuse, free to equivocate; to marry, to give up the game, to drag this death weight about with him for years to come. He could do what he liked, no one had the right to advise him, there would be for him no Good or Evil unless he thought them into being." JP Sartre

  5. #45
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Socionics
    ENTj
    Posts
    5,908

    Default

    Is (or isn't) it stereotypical to say that stereotypes are based on ignorance?
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  6. #46
    meh Salomé's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    10,540

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ObliviousExistence View Post
    if a person takes stereotypes as facts then it indicates ignorance. Stereotypes are based on generalizations and as such have only probability value.
    They don't even have that. They are effectively untested hypotheses. Folk wisdom. As wise or as stupid as the folk who invented them. And many comprise a set of assumptions or attributes which are impossible to verify.

    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyNoLimits
    so really, it almost seems like it's ignorant to think that stereotypes are ignorant. see what i did there?
    Yeah. You confused yourself. Is it ignorant to think that ignorance is ignorant? Not really. It's accurate, if mundane.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  7. #47
    meh Salomé's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    10,540

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FireyPheonix View Post
    Steroetyping really is a working guide that you throw out once you have more concrete input (or have a new method of operating), so it's born of ignorance (or help the ignorant). It becomes destructive when it's clung to, and misrepresented as fact, when really it stopped being useful along time ago, and some body forgot to update the working guide.
    Quite so.

    Interesting thread, Trin. One assumes most thinking people realize this to be true but in so doing one engages in the "similar to me" stereotype. Perfect irony.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  8. #48
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Enneagram
    9w8 so/sx
    Posts
    11,544

    Default

    OT stuff moved. Resume topic: Stereotypes... now

  9. #49
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    No - the perspectives I offered/you quoted are not rooted in subjective experience.

    Biologically, women have a higher concentration of fat cells than do men, on average between 6-11% more. To my other point, men are innately physically stronger than women. This is owed to increased production of testosterone.

    It's just science, blue.
    Both points are true. (Although I think then she's suggesting that, if true scientifically, they're no longer stereotypes.) I think there is confusion, though, because I've seen people argue vehemently that such statements ARE stereotypes... including this guy:

    Quote Originally Posted by ConstantlyImagining
    Stereotypes typically involve taking what one sees as a general pattern in a demographic group- whether observed first hand or otherwise- and erroneously apply it to every member of said demographic group. All stereotypes are wrong- both logically and,in some cases, ethically. For example to say that men are stronger than women is a stereotype and thus wrong.

    However, if one were to say that men are generally stronger than women, then that may be considered a proper generalisation and thus accurate and further more ethical. The nuances between a stereotype and a generalisation, produced by adding words or phrases that denote the pattern as general- in the case of a generalisation-, alters implications and connotations of the statement almost entirely as it takes into consideration the possibility of instances or variables that lie beyond what is the norm.
    So in these instances the difference between a stereotype and a generalization is the inclusion of qualifying phrases that signal a generalization, rather than just offering what can be assumed to be a generalized truth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    If the statement is "all stereotypes have some truth", then I don't think this absolute is likely. The common can be controlled and do vary. Perhaps stereotypes can only go from 0% to 80% reliable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Stereotypes are born of the inability of normal people to think probabilistically (most is not all). They're never wholly true, but they're generally mostly true, and thus useful regardless.
    Quote Originally Posted by ObliviousExistence View Post
    if a person takes stereotypes as facts then it indicates ignorance. Stereotypes are based on generalizations and as such have only probability value.
    Yes, basically that's it -- they're not statements of fact that are either/or true, they're statements of seeming probability (at best). I've learned the hard way that many people in this world do not assign probability to statements in order to "weigh" their veracity, instead they turn them into erroneous binary statements because keeping probability sliders in mind is just too complex. To me, I just assume in my head (because I already attach a probability slider) that the statement "men are physically stronger than women" is just a general truth, because I know exceptions to the rule (i.e., the ends of the bell curves overlap)... but it's obvious that the center of the bell curves for both genders reflect this statement to be generally accurate.

    And stereotypes do have some practical value, as Morgan notes here:

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    "That snake bit me"
    Ergo "All snakes bite"
    Ergo "Must kill every snake I see"

    outlived people who think like this:

    "That snake bit me"
    "I wonder if all snakes bite?"
    "Let me just find another snake and check that..."
    Totally. Fairness and/or accuracy wasn't the priority; survival and/or personal well-being was. Survival meant minimizing risk, not being "more accurate" and inadvertently walking the edge.

    It sort of just sucks when the same methodology is carried out nowadays to repress or hurt others, a thought probably shared by the non-poisonous snakes in the above example.

    Nowadays stereotypes seem to be a tool used by people who are unable or are afraid to operate in ambiguity of working with probabilities rather than rigid binary facts; they avoid their anxiety, at some else's expense.

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Is (or isn't) it stereotypical to say that stereotypes are based on ignorance?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #50
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5/8
    Socionics
    ENTp None
    Posts
    4,754

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Both points are true. (Although I think then she's suggesting that, if true scientifically, they're no longer stereotypes.)
    That was my initial lean, as well. The subsequent explanations were less than concise, so I thought I'd have some fun.

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 71
    Last Post: 06-18-2015, 09:08 PM
  2. What's my type based on facts/anecdotes
    By cloudcake in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-04-2014, 07:45 PM
  3. Sociotype based on Images or Tumblr pages.
    By Stansmith in forum Socionics
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-21-2014, 09:43 PM
  4. Which alignment or alignments based on the D&D Character Alignment system, are you?
    By bbmangenderless in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 01-28-2013, 02:09 PM
  5. [MBTItm] Patience based on personality types or individual?
    By INF?2121 in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 03-13-2009, 03:11 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO