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  1. #31

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    Stereotypes typically involve taking what one sees as a general pattern in a demographic group- whether observed first hand or otherwise- and erroneously apply it to every member of said demographic group. All stereotypes are wrong- both logically and,in some cases, ethically. For example to say that men are stronger than women is a stereotype and thus wrong.

    However, if one were to say that men are generally stronger than women, then that may be considered a proper generalisation and thus accurate and further more ethical. The nuances between a stereotype and a generalisation, produced by adding words or phrases that denote the pattern as general- in the case of a generalisation-, alters implications and connotations of the statement almost entirely as it takes into consideration the possibility of instances or variables that lie beyond what is the norm. Generalisations may also be considered more ethical as to articulate a stereotype when one is aware that it is not ubiquitously applicable can be considered as misconstruing the facts or one's observations.Also should the golden rule or the harm principle be given any weight in ethics, stereotypes may also be considered unethical; as you may be disparaging people of a demographic group and perhaps maybe in some cases hampering their individual development- as was hypothetically the case in a study when the stereotype that girls perform poorly in Mathematics generally negatively impacted some girls' performance in their Mathematics classes. It also is perhaps more coherent with " philosophical etiquette" as it takes into consideration that there may be known unknowns and unknown unknowns; I cannot recall the originator at this time but a philosopher one said that " It is precisely in knowing its limitations that philosophy exists"; in the scenario of the patterns we observe in people's characteristics we can take this a bit further and adjust the framework such that we may recognise where and to whom the pattern may apply and thus perhaps, in doing so, acquire a better understanding of ourselves and those around us.

    At the same time there may be some positive benefits to negative stereotypes. Some people of a demographic may be hurt by the stereotype and thus seek to prove said stereotype- and its proponents- wrong by refraining from being able to be classed into the stereotype. Thus in doing so they may be free of the negative trait applied to their demographic. This, however, is not free of problems as such people may grow indignant with the stereotype and may develop low expectations of society or in personal relationships, perhaps going as far as to avoid many forms of closeness to others holding a "they will never understand me" paradigm.They may feel victimised.Although it should be noted that people may not fit into steroetypes regardless of if they are averse to them or not.

    On a personal note, I generally view stereotypes as annoying and rather ignorant. And personally I believe that no label can ever truly describe who we are as individuals; for the most part I believe we make our choices as to who we are
    The MBTI is a tool to help you on your self discovery. It nor any other the label can ever hope to describe you, because you are are unique and special, we all are. Any comments made regarding a group of people should be considered to be general and not ubiquitous; and no one should lose of sight of that. . Do not stereotype other people or yourself for that matter, but generalise if you must when a general example or pattern is required. And if you took the time to read this thank you

  2. #32
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    Do stereotypes exclusively imply "All X is Y" or does it also allow "Most X is Y"?

  3. #33
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Stereotypes are born of the inability of normal people to think probabilistically (most is not all). They're never wholly true, but they're generally mostly true, and thus useful regardless.
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  4. #34
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    No - the perspectives I offered/you quoted are not rooted in subjective experience.

    Biologically, women have a higher concentration of fat cells than do men, on average between 6-11% more. To my other point, men are innately physically stronger than women. This is owed to increased production of testosterone.

    It's just science, blue. Adding qualitative measurement outside of data context is a perceptual invention. There are some absolutes.
    Dont patronize me, Aaron. You're getting bogged down in specifics and missing the point. I'll state it for you more plainly: stereotypes are NOT based on science.
    Quote Originally Posted by durentu
    ]You also draw a contextual fallacy between the nature of sterotypes (which is a function of humans) and of nature itself
    Nope. My point stands without illustration. To conclude that truth is "what most people believe" is sloppy at best, dangerous at worst.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  5. #35
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ConstantlyImagining View Post
    Stereotypes typically involve taking what one sees as a general pattern in a demographic group- whether observed first hand or otherwise- and erroneously apply it to every member of said demographic group. All stereotypes are wrong- both logically and,in some cases, ethically. For example to say that men are stronger than women is a stereotype and thus wrong.

    However, if one were to say that men are generally stronger than women, then that may be considered a proper generalisation and thus accurate and further more ethical. The nuances between a stereotype and a generalisation, produced by adding words or phrases that denote the pattern as general- in the case of a generalisation-, alters implications and connotations of the statement almost entirely as it takes into consideration the possibility of instances or variables that lie beyond what is the norm. Generalisations may also be considered more ethical as to articulate a stereotype when one is aware that it is not ubiquitously applicable can be considered as misconstruing the facts or one's observations.Also should the golden rule or the harm principle be given any weight in ethics, stereotypes may also be considered unethical; as you may be disparaging people of a demographic group and perhaps maybe in some cases hampering their individual development- as was hypothetically the case in a study when the stereotype that girls perform poorly in Mathematics generally negatively impacted some girls' performance in their Mathematics classes. It also is perhaps more coherent with " philosophical etiquette" as it takes into consideration that there may be known unknowns and unknown unknowns; I cannot recall the originator at this time but a philosopher one said that " It is precisely in knowing its limitations that philosophy exists"; in the scenario of the patterns we observe in people's characteristics we can take this a bit further and adjust the framework such that we may recognise where and to whom the pattern may apply and thus perhaps, in doing so, acquire a better understanding of ourselves and those around us.

    At the same time there may be some positive benefits to negative stereotypes. Some people of a demographic may be hurt by the stereotype and thus seek to prove said stereotype- and its proponents- wrong by refraining from being able to be classed into the stereotype. Thus in doing so they may be free of the negative trait applied to their demographic. This, however, is not free of problems as such people may grow indignant with the stereotype and may develop low expectations of society or in personal relationships, perhaps going as far as to avoid many forms of closeness to others holding a "they will never understand me" paradigm.They may feel victimised.Although it should be noted that people may not fit into steroetypes regardless of if they are averse to them or not.

    On a personal note, I generally view stereotypes as annoying and rather ignorant. And personally I believe that no label can ever truly describe who we are as individuals; for the most part I believe we make our choices as to who we are
    Excellent post.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  6. #36
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    ^ agree.

  7. #37
    Senior Member Saslou's Avatar
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    I haven't read all the posts so i may possibly be duplicating or not.

    I think stereotypes will always exist no matter how much people say they don't stereotype, as reality is only an illusion to the individual. Everyone puts meaning to their experiences be it true or not. So what is reality? As everyone has a different view of it. Sames goes with stereotyping.
    “I made you take time to look at what I saw and when you took time to really notice my flower, you hung all your associations with flowers on my flower and you write about my flower as if I think and see what you think and see—and I don't.”
    ― Georgia O'Keeffe

  8. #38
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    I would acknowledge the experiences that might have set them on the course of stereotyping... I'd sympathize with their emotional reality. "White people did this to me, therefore they're all this way.." I might feel bad for them depending on what it was. But I wouldn't acknowledge it as reality. I'd try to introduce them to "White people" (just to carry the example further) who they'd get along with more, who didn't measure up to their stereotype. That would be more in line with reality.

  9. #39
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    stereotypes are ignorant generalizations about things which are usually factual

    for example, its ignorant to think every black person licks their lips when they drive by KFC but it's also ignorant to insist that the supposition materialized from thin air

    as usual, it's neither one or the other, once again showing that ignorance IS when you try to make reality black and white, or think you can draw any sort of conclusions from something involving an unknown quantity and variety of factors

    so really, it almost seems like it's ignorant to think that stereotypes are ignorant. see what i did there?

  10. #40
    Senior Member Saslou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I would acknowledge the experiences that might have set them on the course of stereotyping... I'd sympathize with their emotional reality. "White people did this to me, therefore they're all this way.." I might feel bad for them depending on what it was. But I wouldn't acknowledge it as reality. I'd try to introduce them to "White people" (just to carry the example further) who they'd get along with more, who didn't measure up to their stereotype. That would be more in line with reality.
    Got ya. You wouldn't acknowledge it as reality because it is not you illusion of reality as you may get on well with white people. You seem to be suggesting empathy/compassion to the others persons viewpoint thus changing it.
    Another example then .. As a child my mother should of been there for me when i needed her the most, she wasn't. Growing up, i have looked for people to support me when i have needed them the most, they have left and i now have trust and abandonment issues (somewhat true and i could be stereotyped for this)
    Now we can use many different angles here.
    1 - The people i needed had more pressing issues at the time
    2 - The people i choose to turn to for help were selfish, looking after their own needs
    3 - My perception is warped because these people did help but not in the way i required the most support
    4 - The list goes on.

    The only thing that hasn't changed is i still have issues until i change my version of reality and accept something from the list above. Until then i could still be stereotyped by others and myself

    We have the opportunity to go and see shrinks to get a better understanding of our barriers and beliefs (you can help/support/guide someone, you're just not getting paid for it though). It still doesn't change the fact that due to the individual's experience of life and the meanings they have attached to it. This is their reality, even if it is for a short period of time until their reality changes to another meaning.
    “I made you take time to look at what I saw and when you took time to really notice my flower, you hung all your associations with flowers on my flower and you write about my flower as if I think and see what you think and see—and I don't.”
    ― Georgia O'Keeffe

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