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  1. #21
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    If the statement is "all stereotypes have some truth", then I don't think this absolute is likely. The common can be controlled and do vary. Perhaps stereotypes can only go from 0% to 80% reliable.

  2. #22
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    No, I get what you're saying, Jock. Science is our best guess - that's all it is. It's mutable. We're going with the data we have. Certainly, our data set is incomplete.

    Still, until revised professional data becomes available, what we have is what we have. If we want progress, we have to go from there.

  3. #23
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    If the statement is "all stereotypes have some truth", I don't think this absolute is likely. The common can be controlled and do vary. Perhaps stereotypes can only go from 0% to 80% reliable.
    I'd say that "all stereotypes have an observational consistency." Whether that observation is based on scientific rigor, or blind hate, or ignorance, is individual to that stereotype.



  4. #24
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    Not to inject type where it may not be applicable, because it's known that it's used for far too much here, but I wonder if there's a correlation between the validity of stereotypes vs. judging orientations. For a Ti user, truth is usually axiomatic and tends to be considered as absolute. Like MLF says, the earth was always round, if something is not ALWAYS true, then it is not true. For the Te user, something is true if it can be functionally applied in a correct manner, ie, statistically. No idea. This came to me before my first cup of coffee. I might even be dreaming, there is a unicorn standing next to me.
    I guess the only ultimate evidence for truth, in most, is consistency?


    Anyways. I do think stereotypes can be easily misused [obviously], but they're a tool. Like Night says, how one uses the tool is extremely important and the credibility of the observation being applied to a group is paramount in the stereotype's validity. I do wonder though, is a stereotype not a fact just because it's applied to people and not to something else?
    Perhaps because people aren't as consistent and/or predictable as everything else. though I might be pointing the obvious..

    Is science, in a way, merely stereotype?

  5. #25
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    Stereotypes: attributing something observed in one or more instances to an entire group of people.

    For example: Some green people are violent; therefor, all green people are violent.

  6. #26
    Senior Member durentu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    Argumentum ad populum.
    Nothing to do with truth. Earth didn't suddenly become a sphere when people stopped believing it was flat. The masses just became a little wiser.
    Yes, but if you believe that the earth is indeed a sphere, you'd be falling for this fallacy as well. At the next level, the Earth is indeed an oblate spheroid. We can go further and say that space itself is warped via gravitational effects and the shape of the Earth is indeed further distorted from what we can perceive.

    The line is drawn at the limits of human understanding, which is a function of human perception, with or without the aid of technology.

    You also draw a contextual fallacy between the nature of sterotypes (which is a function of humans) and of nature itself (indifferent to humans).

  7. #27
    A passer by yvonne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    Not to inject type where it may not be applicable, because it's known that it's used for far too much here, but I wonder if there's a correlation between the validity of stereotypes vs. judging orientations. For a Ti user, truth is usually axiomatic and tends to be considered as absolute. Like MLF says, the earth was always round, if something is not ALWAYS true, then it is not true. For the Te user, something is true if it can be functionally applied in a correct manner, ie, statistically. No idea. This came to me before my first cup of coffee. I might even be dreaming, there is a unicorn standing next to me.

    Anyways. I do think stereotypes can be easily misused [obviously], but they're a tool. Like Night says, how one uses the tool is extremely important and the credibility of the observation being applied to a group is paramount in the stereotype's validity. I do wonder though, is a stereotype not a fact just because it's applied to people and not to something else?
    very interesting. there aren't that many things out there that we know are facts, but many of the evaluations made are close enough to being somewhat true (in that context)... but even the shape of the globe is changing all the time, so even that isn't ALWAYS true?

  8. #28
    A passer by yvonne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by durentu View Post
    Yes, but if you believe that the earth is indeed a sphere, you'd be falling for this fallacy as well. At the next level, the Earth is indeed an oblate spheroid. We can go further and say that space itself is warped via gravitational effects and the shape of the Earth is indeed further distorted from what we can perceive.

    The line is drawn at the limits of human understanding, which is a function of human perception, with or without the aid of technology.
    yes, exactly.

  9. #29
    A passer by yvonne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    lol so this is about stereotypes in general..... sorry about the little SFP crusade above..

    ok, so... there's a stereotype of asian men having small dicks, for example. or being pushovers and overly "polite". not true in the slightest, because if anyone said that, i'd shove my dick up their ass. now first of all, it'd be big enough for them to feel and probably cry about - second, most people would agree that assraping someone isn't a very "polite" thing to do. on top of that, i wouldn't be the pushover in that situation.

    if you don't like the vulgarity, sorry. just trying to make a point. which is "welcome to the real world. stereotypes don't exist here."

    p.s. i also suck at math and ping pong.
    i don't like the vulgarity, but this post was so unexpected and refreshing here that it made me laugh

  10. #30
    Uniqueorn William K's Avatar
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    I'd say stereotypes occur because the human mind is unable to handle too many variables and feels a need to categorize things (or in this case people). It is just a way to make the world simpler so that we don't need to waste our energy to find out the facts for ourselves for each and every single individual.

    As for whether it is based on facts, I would say it's based on assumptions made on a very small and probably incomplete sample size. Even then it might not be from direct observation. It might be like an urban legend where "I heard this and this from someone's brother's friend's colleague's ex-wife". If there is any facts at the beginning, it is so obfuscated from the word of mouth that there's probably no way of finding out how the stereotype started and whether it is valid or not.
    4w5, Fi>Ne>Ti>Si>Ni>Fe>Te>Se, sp > so > sx

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