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  1. #21
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santtu View Post
    How would you rank (or score) the functions by happiness? How about F/T? I've been under the impression that F might be happier..

    I've also thought if those with dominant extroverted judging function might be happier.. perhaps also when secondary? Does it make a person more happier to be a doer?
    It's hard to say which is happiest. I think the extraverted functions give happiness for different reasons:

    Te gives a person happiness by accomplishing goals.
    Fe gives a person happiness by having friends and fulfilling relationships.
    Se gives a person happiness by enjoying the sensual pleasures.
    Ne gives a person happiness simply by seeing the possibilities. Ne sees the potential in things which makes the ENTP confident and ENFP like everyone.

    By contrast:
    Ti makes a person critical.
    Fi makes a person beat themselves up over the slightest thing.
    Si makes a person frustrated whenever something is out of place.
    Ni I believe is fairly neutral (neither positive or negative).

    In general the extraverted functions make a person happy.
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  2. #22
    Mamma said knock you out Mempy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    In general the extraverted functions make a person happy.

    Is that really how it is, though? The way I see it, you can be an introvert and still be outgoing, expressive and upbeat. I think that introverts get a pretty negative rep. We're seen as the people sitting by ourselves in the corner, fingering a pen or pencil thoughtfully - and that's going easy on us. At worst, we're seen as reclusive, hermit-like creatures that can't socialize and bury ourselves in masochistic loneliness. Haha. Alright, I have to laugh at that image.

    It's true that extroverts get assigned positive qualities such as upbeat, outgoing, talkative, expressive, interested (and interesting), funny, laughing, smiling... I think those traits are associated with happiness for a few reasons. One, if you're expressive and feel pretty comfortable putting yourself out there, you must be pretty confident. Secondly, it feels good to express oneself - much better than keeping things inside. But introverts are just as capable of confidence and self-expression.

    I think it's true, in MBTI-speak, that extroverts get more energy from the outer world. Therefore, they may appear more talkative and more outgoing with people - and they are. It's because people give them energy, right? The outer world is their oyster. But there's nothing to say that the inner world of introverts isn't just as fulfilling an oyster as extroverts' outer world, is there? Similarly, there's nothing to say that extroverts can't be self-conscious and masochistic, etc.

    Introverts do draw satisfaction from their own powers of deduction. Introverts probably enjoy tinkering with an idea as much as extroverts enjoy tinkering with the outer world of ideas and objects. Truthfully, I'm not sure exactly what extroverts think about or are drawn to, but I know that as an introvert, I am just as capable of happiness as an extrovert. Even if I'm not, I refuse to believe extroverts have much of a head start on me, because I don't feel like feeling sorry for myself, haha.

    In response to the way you defined extroverted and introverted functions, I'll define the E functions from my POV:

    -Fe can make you self-conscious of what other people think.
    -Ne can make it hard to sit down and really write a solid, cohesive paper, because you have so many ideas bouncing around in your head. They can overwhelm you and confuse you.
    -Te can lead to anger when not everything fits into a neat, defined category. Te can lead to annoyance when things aren't congruent.
    -Se can make you hyper-aware of danger in your environment, leading to anxiety. Se may also make you binge eat or overindulge in physical pleasures.

    I don't think all the functions are defined well enough, especially the introverted ones, but I think the introverted functions can bring happiness too. Introverted feeling, for example, is capable of placing a pair of rose-colored glasses over your eyes. Those glasses can make you see the world in the most moving and meaningful ways.

  3. #23
    *ears perk up* wolfmaiden14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mempy View Post

    -Ne can make it hard to sit down and really write a solid, cohesive paper, because you have so many ideas bouncing around in your head. They can overwhelm you and confuse you.
    I'm sorry. you said a lot of wonderful things in that post, but I had to pull that one aside because.. BING-FREAKING-GO. That happens to me ALL THE TIME. As soon as I wake up in the morning it takes me literally hours to get started on my day because there's so many options of what I need to and can do and how to balance and organize them. And I get overwhelmed and end up getting very little of any of it done.

    The bottom line is, I don't think there really is an answer to this. Happiness is how you use what you've got and how you view the world around you. It's different for everyone.
    Forming characters! Whose? Our own or others? Both. And in that momentous fact lies the peril and responsibility of our existence. - Elihu Burritt

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  4. #24
    Mamma said knock you out Mempy's Avatar
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    I'm sorry. you said a lot of wonderful things in that post, but I had to pull that one aside because.. BING-FREAKING-GO. That happens to me ALL THE TIME.
    Oh, I'm glad you liked that description. I thought it was especially true for me as well.

    The bottom line is, I don't think there really is an answer to this. Happiness is how you use what you've got and how you view the world around you. It's different for everyone.
    Exactly! It's what you make of life, not what you're given.

    I do think that the examples you gave are more important to happiness. Moreover, they are something anyone can do.. but then type theory, people of any type can use other functions too. Even if happiness was function-related, it would be within anyone's grasp.
    Exactly. Happiness, I think, is within anyone's grasp.

  5. #25
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    You want a function? Here's your friggin' function.

    H(x)= friend /enemies + possessions/need for possessions - how seriously you take life + dignity^2/guilt + average hours spent outside per day/(2 + addictions)

  6. #26
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mempy View Post
    Is that really how it is, though? The way I see it, you can be an introvert and still be outgoing, expressive and upbeat.
    Note that I'm saying extraverted functions bring happiness, but not necessarily extraversion itself. Every person uses all eight functions. For an introvert though, the primary source of happiness will come from their extraverted function. For example an INFJ can be "outgoing, expressive and upbeat" as you say, but those things come primarily from Fe.

    Also to clarify I am defining happiness as something like joy or euphoria. I am not referring to happiness as any sort of long term fulfillment or contentment. Introverted functions tend to give a person more of an internal "anchor", but they don't give a person joy. I think a self-actualized person will have their auxiliary function well developed regardless of whether they are introvert or extravert. That "anchor" is necessary for a person to know what will make their lives fulfilling.


    (bold type mine in the quote below):
    In response to the way you defined extroverted and introverted functions, I'll define the E functions from my POV:I never meant to use definitions, just bring out characteristics.

    -Fe can make you self-conscious of what other people think.That self-consciousness tends to motivate the person toward establishing friendships which ultimately does more to fuel happiness than to take away.
    -Ne can make it hard to sit down and really write a solid, cohesive paper, because you have so many ideas bouncing around in your head. They can overwhelm you and confuse you.It can be upsetting to waste that time, but the time wasting is almost always a very enjoyable experience.
    -Te can lead to anger when not everything fits into a neat, defined category. Te can lead to annoyance when things aren't congruent.Te can make a person angry to be certain. But the result is generall to keep trying harder to accomplish a goal and the end satisfaction usually will more than offset the frustration.
    -Se can make you hyper-aware of danger in your environment, leading to anxiety. Se may also make you binge eat or overindulge in physical pleasures. Hyper-awareness of danger is more of an aspect of Si or possibly Ni. Se does cause addictive behavior, and as I've said above developing an introverted function can help "anchor" a person and break the cycle. Se still gives short term pleasure but at the expense of long term consequences.

    I don't think all the functions are defined well enough, especially the introverted ones, but I think the introverted functions can bring happiness too. Introverted feeling, for example, is capable of placing a pair of rose-colored glasses over your eyes. Those glasses can make you see the world in the most moving and meaningful ways.
    The rosy glasses is aspect of NFP's, and not necessarily of SFP's. Heck as an ENTP I have a fairly rosy outlook. The rosy outlook comes from Ne, but is magnified through Fi.
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  7. #27
    Mamma said knock you out Mempy's Avatar
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    Note that I'm saying extraverted functions bring happiness [...]. For an introvert though, the primary source of happiness will come from their extraverted function.
    I would argue that there's insubstantial proof for this. I can see what you mean by the "anchor" aspect of introverted functions, but I think introverted functions can bring joy and euphoria too. I can't prove it, but I have a hunch.

    I read one of the articles (skimmed, is more like). I think that it's probably safe to assume they weren't defining "extroverted traits" in terms of MBTI. Since "extroverted traits" was only defined as being "talkative and energetic," I think the study is inconclusive in terms of MBTI. If you're happy, of course you're going to laugh, smile, and interact easily with people. You're going to have more energy. Colliqually, more happiness has always been associated with extroverted traits.

    In my mind at least, I think people tend to create problems for themselves. In other words, no matter where the sunbeams fall on their valley, there will be shadows, without exception. I think humans are naturally both self-creating and self-destroying creatures, because of their fears. No matter how good their circumstances are or what personality they start out with, sooner or later they'll develop a fear that will grow until they are more or less at the same level of fear most people are. I think we create demons for ourselves - I just think the human mind is made to do it - and I think, if we're lucky, we end up solving them. But we're always faced with new ones, so I don't think we're ever truly problem-free. That's why I first responded to your post as I did, Laser. Thanks for clearing your post up.

    I think a self-actualized person will have their auxiliary function well developed regardless of whether they are introvert or extravert. That "anchor" is necessary for a person to know what will make their lives fulfilling.
    I would agree with that.

    That self-consciousness tends to motivate the person toward establishing friendships which ultimately does more to fuel happiness than to take away.
    I disagree. "Until you are happy with who you are, you will never be happy with what you have."

    It can be upsetting to waste that time, but the time wasting is almost always a very enjoyable experience.
    I can go either way with this. The bottom line is, I see positive and negative aspects to every function, including Ne. I don't think wasting that time would be enjoyable if you had a deadline or if you were just in a bad mood. Arguably, any function can be enjoyable when you're in a good mood.

    Te can make a person angry to be certain. But the result is generall to keep trying harder to accomplish a goal and the end satisfaction usually will more than offset the frustration.
    Don't know about that one.

    Hyper-awareness of danger is more of an aspect of Si or possibly Ni.
    I know a few ESFPs and ESTPs who are quite paranoid and fearful of their environment. I also know that INFJs and INTJs, who have fourth-rung Se, can be pretty anxious regarding their environments. I'm going to guess that's because of Se.

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