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  1. #61
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I do foresee difficulty with non-visual learners learning non-sight words. The English language is a crazy mishmash because it is, in essence, a combination of languages, but those languages are phonetic in their written forms.

    In early elementary school, the 220 sight words will get you a long way. In high school and college, they might not be enough and if a person does not have basic phonic decoding skills, they could well have problems.

    I would not want my children taught only or even primarily a sight-based reading system. I want my children to learn the phonetic mechanics of reading, even if it's complicated and at times confusing. I'd be five kinds of pissed if this area of their education was neglected.

    This study was done in 2001 with only 86 students. Have there been broader studies or long-term follow up? I would hope that such would be the case before 90% of students' educations were tinkered with for the benefit children who could simply have their own reading group.

    My sons are autistic and sometimes they need some special accommodations, but I can't imagine expecting the rest of the student body to have to take time out of their day to do social stories and talk about 'expected' behaviors, etc.

    Those kids know that "My head is a pig!" is not an appropriate salutation. My son, OTOH, needed a little help figuring that out. I wouldn't want him taken out of advanced math because a couple of the kids in his class were struggling with math, so it's only fair.

    I am coming back to this soon, my head is swimming a bit because i am having to reply to so many posts (because i want to) and i need to refer back to things i have learnt, i have some info regarding the above, i just need to go check it out (and have some coffee-yum!) and then i can reply. Toodles
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  2. #62
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    ADHD is also a double edged sword.

    Some people have it so bad that they have serious issues relating to others even on simple terms.

    Others have it bad enough to where their learning will be anything but conventional, and yet they manage to express their intelligence in other ways.

    Personally, I don't the term "learning disability" as it is derogatory.

    Wouldn't a term like "learning modality" be just as effective in identifying that a person's methods of taking in, processing, and communicating back information are different than those "under the bell curve" and not label them as having a "disability?"

    Good for you for helping your son as you have, and for recognizing his abilities. I think that's awesome.
    Can't believe i missed this post. Thank you, i totally agree and it is a derogatory term!
    Yay, thanks for thinking it's awesome!
    For ages i just couldn't understand how he was able to do so many things but not write the letter j the right way round, it just didn't add up, i am so glad i have found a way that makes reading and writing easy for him, it's brilliant!
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  3. #63
    Not Your Therapist Sinmara's Avatar
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    Gift, disability, whatever. I just hate it when people use it as an excuse for their shortcomings, rationalizing away any ownership or responsibility for their actions because they have a disability, so if you criticize them you're a mean person because they have a problem that makes them special and different and everyone has to adapt to them instead of the other way around. It's a lazy way to live, hiding behind some sort of percieved weakness as a shield when you should just accept it, own it, adapt to it and get over it.

  4. #64
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GemPOPGem View Post
    Equally we need to address our strengths.
    My son and I are currently, on a daily basis addressing what you refer to as "weaknesses". I actually do not interpret it as a weakness. With the style of learning we are using he is whizzing ahead with relatively no effort. The weakness is in the main eduactional system of learning.
    Where is the problem?
    He's going to have to work on it like that for the rest of his life, though, like Tinkerbell's examples of feeling nervous reading aloud or writing in front of others and Elaur's sister who needs to immediately write something down before her mind jumbles up the characters she's supposed to remember.

    The problem lies in imagining a child who is told their dyslexia is a gift, and therefore does not recognize that they should be constantly developing a repertoire of skills to accommodate their weakness. Reading is too important to any number of potential life futures and a child should have the opportunity to chase after their dreams.

    If you're accommodating his weaknesses with him daily I don't understand what your problem is with labeling it as a disability. The education system is a gigantic institution, and like any other large institution, has bureaucracy and holes and problems that come along with large scale institutions--they need to do a program en masse.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
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  5. #65
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Umm it sounds like he's very gifted in addition to having dyslexia. That doesn't make dyslexia a positive thing; it just means he has lots of positive gifts apart from the dyslexia.

    Removing his dyslexia would not remove the other gifts he has. Simultaneously being dyslexic and very intelligent doesn't make dyslexia a good thing; he just also happens to be very intelligent in addition to having this disability.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  6. #66
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Just because your son is brilliant doesn't mean dyslexia is a good thing.

    Edit: just read some replies; seems like my words weren't needed.

  7. #67
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I do foresee difficulty with non-visual learners learning non-sight words. The English language is a crazy mishmash because it is, in essence, a combination of languages, but those languages are phonetic in their written forms.

    The 220 sight words make up up to 80% of reading material, at least in primary reading...
    "The Dolch words are the 220 most frequently found words in books that children read. These words are usually learned in first and second grade; students who learn these words have a good base for beginning reading. Many of these words cannot be sounded out because they do not follow decoding rules, so they must be learned as sight words."
    Dolch Basic Word List from English-Zone.Com


    In early elementary school, the 220 sight words will get you a long way. In high school and college, they might not be enough and if a person does not have basic phonic decoding skills, they could well have problems.

    Actally it's very hard to find solid undisputed information regarding this, there seems to be huge internet wide debate. We have to break down the reading stages (1-5) and look at them individually. It is certainly necessary to learn how to sound out words using letter blending and later morphology. Later still, when you get to level 4 (ages 14-18) you find an area where dyslexic (providing they have learnt to read in the prior stages) individuals excell.
    "Ironically when your child finally reaches the phase where reading involves more complex thinking and analysis, he is ready to shine. Your child's whole-to-part learning style is geared for the demands of dealing with shifting viewpoint and contrasting information. He may still have difficulty with some of the mechanics of reading, but his mind is is well suited to sharing and manipulation of ideas. He will be well prepared to move on to the final, fith stage of reading-college level and beyond. fortunately, if you can sucessfully guide your child past the early stage barriers to this phase, he will be able to excel at understanding and intergrating advanced level material"
    That is a quote from "The Parents guide to children with dyslexia"
    I couldn't copy every stage as i had to copy type the text and it takes ages with the book propped up by one knee and a hand, and only one hand typing.

    I would not want my children taught only or even primarily a sight-based reading system. I want my children to learn the phonetic mechanics of reading, even if it's complicated and at times confusing. I'd be five kinds of pissed if this area of their education was neglected.

    But the 220 dolch words are mainly non phonetic, taught as sight words, so they will be doing this weather you like it or not. A hell of a lot of reading is learnt by sounding out words, even if they are not phonetically correct. They are done through sound blending etc. I am not trying to erradicate phonics but it really does need updating since a lot of it is highly ineffictive.

    This study was done in 2001 with only 86 students. Have there been broader studies or long-term follow up? I would hope that such would be the case before 90% of students' educations were tinkered with for the benefit children who could simply have their own reading group.
    Well unless they were done independantly then no. Research studies are very expensive and when conducted by a company for it's own company people tend to see it as one sided-really we need independant research.
    However there are three schools in the us that are using the program as pioneer schools, they are
    Elbert Elementary School in Colorado
    Northwestern Area School District (South Dakota)
    Walsh Elementary School (Colorado)
    they all have very very good outcomes from using the program, feel free to read up on them.


    My sons are autistic and sometimes they need some special accommodations, but I can't imagine expecting the rest of the student body to have to take time out of their day to do social stories and talk about 'expected' behaviors, etc.

    I have an autistic child too (yes i know, i really do have all theese different things going on), attending a school for children with asd
    i would not expect a mainstream school to adapt to the learning style that is used within the specialist school as i do not believe it would be beneficial to all. Infact although i know it is the best school for my child i also believe there is a better way for them to learn and i am currently researching this.
    interestingly The davis program now offer something for autistic children but i need to look into it in more depth and see if it will suit my child.

    Those kids know that "My head is a pig!" is not an appropriate salutation. My son, OTOH, needed a little help figuring that out. I wouldn't want him taken out of advanced math because a couple of the kids in his class were struggling with math, so it's only fair.
    yes i understand this, it's called turn of phrase. When i said i was "laughing my head off" my child became anxious and upset and kept repeating "it's not really coming off?" and checking my head. Ambiguity is not a strongpoint.

    NB* it took me ages to reply to this, then i lost the page and with it all i had typed, i have redone it, it took another age, i am frustrated and bored of typing-ugh!
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  8. #68
    it's tea time! Walking Tourist's Avatar
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    Yes, I am very "arty." I draw and paint and do a variety of crafts, including crocheting, sewing, embroidery, and knitting. I am also musical, and, oftentimes, I think in music. I sing much of the time. I think that school would have been easier if the lessons had been sung and illustrated with lots of pictures.
    Here are some of the ways that my auditory processing disorder affects me:
    my ears are very sensitive and certain noises causes me excruciating pain
    I can't tune out any background noise and listening to someone in the presence of competing conversations is very laborious and painful
    I have trouble remembering verbal instructions

    Here is a great description of auditory processing disorder: Living With (Central) Auditory Processing Disorder
    Hope this helps.


    Quote Originally Posted by GemPOPGem View Post
    Thank you for sharing that. I do not profess to know much about auditory processing but i do know that it affects my son as part of his dyslexia. To what degree i am unclear and also unclear in your case. I'm willing to bet though that you have some great skills, do you think in pictures? are you arty?
    P.s I'm not suggesting you are dyslexic by the way. It's just i have read somewhere that people with auditory processing difficulties do also have some similar abilities to dyslexics in the way they think.
    I'm a little teapot, short and stout. Here is my handle and here is my spout. Every time I steam up, I give a shout. Just tip me over and pour me out.

  9. #69
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    He's going to have to work on it like that for the rest of his life, though, like Tinkerbell's examples of feeling nervous reading aloud or writing in front of others and Elaur's sister who needs to immediately write something down before her mind jumbles up the characters she's supposed to remember.

    No, the program we are using will not be necessary forever, even when he does need to refer to it, he will have the skills to use it effectively independantly and happily.

    The problem lies in imagining a child who is told their dyslexia is a gift, and therefore does not recognize that they should be constantly developing a repertoire of skills to accommodate their weakness. Reading is too important to any number of potential life futures and a child should have the opportunity to chase after their dreams.

    We are doing just that. We "build" every day. What do you imagine the program is? do you actually know or are you assuming we are solely working of his "gift"? My son has told me many times what he wants to do when he is older, he has been saying the same things for years, since befor he had a diagnosis of dyslexia. He will chase what ever dream he wants to chase. What would lead you to believe otherwise? You seem to be making assumptions

    If you're accommodating his weaknesses with him daily I don't understand what your problem is with labeling it as a disability. The education system is a gigantic institution, and like any other large institution, has bureaucracy and holes and problems that come along with large scale institutions--they need to do a program en masse.
    Again assumptions, what do you mean by "accomodating weakness"? what have i said that would bring you to this conclusion?
    Also please tell me that you know what program i am using and that you have experience that you are basing your assumptions on.
    Can you inform me of your knowledge on this?
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  10. #70
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    Just because your son is brilliant doesn't mean dyslexia is a good thing.

    Edit: just read some replies; seems like my words weren't needed.
    He is not "brilliant" in all areas. His dyslexia is what makes him gifted in certain areas so yes for his giftedness dyslexia is a good thing. Why is that so hard for people to understand.
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

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