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  1. #41
    12 and a half weeks BerberElla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elaur View Post

    Isn't it almost more of a put down to say someone doesn't *have* a disability rather than just acknowledging it and working from there?
    I don't know. The negative connotations associated with the word "disability", when it's only a disability based on perhaps old and outdated teaching methods, seems wrong to label it as such.

    I'm not up to speed on all the current stuff, not like I was when I was trying to get my son settled somewhere that could deal with the way he needed to be taught, but I did read a few articles once that seemed to lean in favour of re-evaluating the current uk method of teaching children because of the increasing amount of children gaining one or another label because the system being used labels all things away from it as "disabilities".


    EDIT: I should add, when my son found out he had a "disability" he then used it as a way to try to excuse everything, so it's not the best of ideas to just tell them. "I'm not going to read that, it's not my fault, I have a disability"......if I had a pound for everytime he has tried to use that lol
    Echo - "So are you trying to say she is Evil"

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  2. #42
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Guys

    labeling is just categorising, to imply that dyslexia is not a dissability is just incorrect... it hampers your life in a number of ways.

    Despite having dule teriary qualifications includign a first class degree, at no point in time will I ever be able to confidently read out loud, no point will I ever be able to pick up a pen publically and not flinch about my spelling.

    For many dyslexics the emotional implications of that flinch is they simply stop trying and end up in menial jobs.

    For many they are squashed so badly by class mates into beleiving they are stupid that they simply give up.

    For many they simply turn away from written langauge which ultimately leaves to increadibly poor literacy.

    There are many condtions within the umbarella of dyslexia, the social stigma and the weird stuff... I seem to have missed out on the following:
    Decent swimming classes - they happened when I was doign extra English - so I'm not a strong swimmer
    Some elements of maths - because I was at english classes
    Violin - no problem there
    and a variety of other subjects I missed because I was in English

    don't get me wrong, I was a lucky one, I was given a very advanced form of specal ed - I was regressed 1/2 day a week in primary 7.

    But don't simply think by changing the word disabled to challenged or equally fluffy language that you reduce the primary or secondary handicap this conditions results in.

    Lack of confidence for the rest of your life.

    If you really want to know how crap this poitn of view is... think of it like this....

    I want to be blind so I cna hear my music better, I know a blind person and they really hear sounds better...


    What I read in the OP is a mum that loves her son, coupled with some outragious bull, ..... love your son and understand what he is going to have to go through beyond just extra English is damaging him.

  3. #43
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BerberElla View Post
    I don't know. The negative connotations associated with the word "disability", when it's only a disability based on perhaps old and outdated teaching methods, seems wrong to label it as such.
    That is not what dyslexia is though.

    I appreciate tinkerbell's transparency about this. She has dealt with it personally. My sister still has to deal with her dyslexia every day.

  4. #44
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Yeah I believe I got a bit of dyslexia. I am glad to see this explains all my other superpowers. (this is not the first time I have heard of such correlations)
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

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  5. #45
    12 and a half weeks BerberElla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    Guys

    labeling is just categorising, to imply that dyslexia is not a dissability is just incorrect... it hampers your life in a number of ways.

    Despite having dule teriary qualifications includign a first class degree, at no point in time will I ever be able to confidently read out loud, no point will I ever be able to pick up a pen publically and not flinch about my spelling.

    For many dyslexics the emotional implications of that flinch is they simply stop trying and end up in menial jobs.

    For many they are squashed so badly by class mates into beleiving they are stupid that they simply give up.

    For many they simply turn away from written langauge which ultimately leaves to increadibly poor literacy.

    There are many condtions within the umbarella of dyslexia, the social stigma and the weird stuff... I seem to have missed out on the following:
    Decent swimming classes - they happened when I was doign extra English - so I'm not a strong swimmer
    Some elements of maths - because I was at english classes
    Violin - no problem there
    and a variety of other subjects I missed because I was in English

    don't get me wrong, I was a lucky one, I was given a very advanced form of specal ed - I was regressed 1/2 day a week in primary 7.

    But don't simply think by changing the word disabled to challenged or equally fluffy language that you reduce the primary or secondary handicap this conditions results in.

    Lack of confidence for the rest of your life.

    If you really want to know how crap this poitn of view is... think of it like this....

    I want to be blind so I cna hear my music better, I know a blind person and they really hear sounds better...


    What I read in the OP is a mum that loves her son, coupled with some outragious bull, ..... love your son and understand what he is going to have to go through beyond just extra English is damaging him.
    The key here is finding a system that works without needing extra english, therefore not missing out on all of the things you say you missed out on.

    What is Dyslexia?

    For instance:

    There is no need to manufacture an innate and specific 'brain disorder' to explain the widespread difficulties English-speaking children have with learning to read and spell. The evidence-based explanation is clear and simple: "The cross-cultural comparisons reveal that the source of English-speaking children's difficulties in learning to read and spell is the English spelling system and the way it is taught. These comparisons provide irrefutable evidence that a biological theory of "dyslexia'', a deficit presumed to be a property of the child is untenable, ruling out the popular "phonological-deficit theory" of dyslexia. For a biological theory to be accurate, dyslexia would have to occur at the same rate in all populations. Otherwise, some type of genetic abnormality would be specific to people who learn an English alphabet code and be absent in people who live in countries with a transparent alphabet, where poor readers are rare. A disorder entirely tied to a particular alphabetic writing system is patently absurd and has no scientific basis. English-speaking children have trouble learning to read and spell because of our complex spelling code and because of current teaching methods, not because of aberrant genes' (D.McGuinness ERI p3)


    Or:

    Professor Diane McGuinness explains the complexities of the English Alphabet Code: 'To learn a code you must know the difference between the code itself and what it stands for. Quantities exist in the real world. The written symbols for those quantities are ‘abstract’ – a set of arbitrary marks or signs designed to represent them. These marks are so arbitrary they must be agreed upon by everyone, otherwise mathematics could not exist. No one would ever dream of marking the quantity ‘three of something’ with more than one symbol, such as the symbol 3, and the number symbol 6, and the number symbol 21, and expect the system to work! Yet this is exactly what the English alphabet code does -- it marks the same sound in English with multiple symbols...Think how bad the English people would be at mathematics, if the written code had multiple alternative symbols for the same number, and each symbol could represent more than one quantity' (Our Right to Read)

    and:

    The first study to show clearly that dyslexia is due to 'the English spelling system and the way it is taught' was that done by Heinz Wimmer in Austria (1993). German is spoken in Austria. It has a transparent written code and is taught using synthetic phonics. Wimmer tested all the worst readers in Salzburg, sent to him by their teachers, and found that they scored 100% correct on reading accuracy and nearly as well in spelling. Their only difficult was in reading speed. Next, Wimmer collaborated with an English researcher Goswami (1994). They compared normal readers in Salzburg (7 yr.olds with 1 yr. of instruction) and London (9 yr.olds with 4-5 yrs. of instruction) reading comparable material. The Austrian children read the material as fluently and accurately as the English 9yr.olds and made half as many errors. A third study by the researchers Landerl, Wimmer and Frith (1997) compared Austrian 'dyslexic' children (slow readers) with English 'dyslexic' children (very inaccurate readers and spellers). The Austrian 'dyslexics' were not only far more accurate but also read twice as fast as the English dyslexics.



    So, maybe the teaching system needs changing.

    All the other problems, like lack of self esteem, shame to read in public, stuff like that could improve if the child wasn't presented with this teaching system that is failing many kids.
    Echo - "So are you trying to say she is Evil"

    DeWitt - "Something far worse, she's an Idealist"

    Berb's Johari Berb's Nohari

  6. #46
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    its not the teachers, dyslexia doens't exsist in China, because the alphabet is picture orientated...

    It's unlikely that anyone is going to change in the West because it would require a new alphabet to be developed and taught to everyone - simply not going to happne

    got to run

  7. #47
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    Guys

    labeling is just categorising, to imply that dyslexia is not a dissability is just incorrect... it hampers your life in a number of ways.

    Despite having dule teriary qualifications includign a first class degree, at no point in time will I ever be able to confidently read out loud, no point will I ever be able to pick up a pen publically and not flinch about my spelling.

    For many dyslexics the emotional implications of that flinch is they simply stop trying and end up in menial jobs.

    For many they are squashed so badly by class mates into beleiving they are stupid that they simply give up.

    For many they simply turn away from written langauge which ultimately leaves to increadibly poor literacy.

    There are many condtions within the umbarella of dyslexia, the social stigma and the weird stuff... I seem to have missed out on the following:
    Decent swimming classes - they happened when I was doign extra English - so I'm not a strong swimmer
    Some elements of maths - because I was at english classes
    Violin - no problem there
    and a variety of other subjects I missed because I was in English

    don't get me wrong, I was a lucky one, I was given a very advanced form of specal ed - I was regressed 1/2 day a week in primary 7.

    But don't simply think by changing the word disabled to challenged or equally fluffy language that you reduce the primary or secondary handicap this conditions results in.

    Lack of confidence for the rest of your life.

    If you really want to know how crap this poitn of view is... think of it like this....

    I want to be blind so I cna hear my music better, I know a blind person and they really hear sounds better...


    What I read in the OP is a mum that loves her son, coupled with some outragious bull, ..... love your son and understand what he is going to have to go through beyond just extra English is damaging him.
    I agree with this.

    My sister gave up on education, despite the best possible care, she just couldn't find a way to study and exceed in school, she barely made it through the lowest class education high school there is in The Netherlands.

    My father started working fulltime when he was 15, which was normal in those times.

    Both of them developped fake self esteem to cope in life. They tend to irrationally overshout in order to get their way and have quite some trouble accepting themselves for who they really are. Because they don't want to know they're 'lame' when it comes to learning, reading, writing, maths, etc. They both learn almost solely through experience. It's their only way to get ahead in life.

    My father dived into the family business fulltime from when he was 15 and actually managed to get somewhere (through very hard work). But my sister sells sandwiches fulltime.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  8. #48
    12 and a half weeks BerberElla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    its not the teachers, dyslexia doens't exsist in China, because the alphabet is picture orientated...

    It's unlikely that anyone is going to change in the West because it would require a new alphabet to be developed and taught to everyone - simply not going to happne

    got to run

    Not necessarily a new language, but another way of teaching it. Like the Multisensory Teaching System: Multisensory Teaching System For Reading - BDA 2001, which was shown to improve both regular and remedial students effectively, and was the pre-phonetics teaching system.

    EDIT: or other systems if anyone knows of them.
    Echo - "So are you trying to say she is Evil"

    DeWitt - "Something far worse, she's an Idealist"

    Berb's Johari Berb's Nohari

  9. #49
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    Well if it's just about teaching methods that doesn't make it a gift either.

  10. #50
    12 and a half weeks BerberElla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elaur View Post
    Well if it's just about teaching methods that doesn't make it a gift either.

    My son's school is for children with emotional and behavioural learning disorders, but it's called "The (name excluded) school for gifted children."
    Echo - "So are you trying to say she is Evil"

    DeWitt - "Something far worse, she's an Idealist"

    Berb's Johari Berb's Nohari

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