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  1. #31
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I think it's great that someone has developed a tool that helps dyslexics read better, but I'm wondering what the long-term effects of teaching non-dyslexic children to read via a non-phonetic method would be. Phonics don't work very well for spelling, but they are pretty helpful for reading/decoding previously unknown words.
    Well i can not foresee any difficulty at all, can you?

    Phonetically many words do not make sense anyway, the English language is pretty stupid when it comes to this. There are roughly 220 sight words that are imperitive to learn in order to begin reading fluently on a basic level. These need to be learnt mainly by sight. Words like you, what, which, know etc etc.
    The program was founded in 1982 and i have never heard of anyone, dyslexic or non-dyslexic experience anything detremental to their learning.

    How long term do you mean?
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  2. #32
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GemPOPGem View Post
    Can you explain why you think it is a learning disibility?
    Adoamros kind of illustrated it for me. It's a disability because it involves the inability to do something. In particular, it's something we take special note of because it's something a strong majority of people can do, and an ability that society has come to expect from people(for good reason, because reading and writing has been incredibly useful to society). It's a disability essentially by the definition of a disability, it's a disability relative to others, and it's a disability for practical purposes.

    Again, it doesn't say anything about the person's capacities beyond the narrow subject of the disability itself, but I can't see how it isn't a disability.
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  3. #33
    12 and a half weeks BerberElla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adoamros View Post
    sounds like a disability.

    We could argue that the disability is the teaching methods used in this case, maybe?

    If the way we taught children to read was different, recognising that one system is not the correct system, and that all other systems are used for "disabled" children only as being wrong, perhaps it would change.
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  4. #34
    Reptilian Snuggletron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BerberElla View Post
    We could argue that the disability is the teaching methods used in this case, maybe?

    If the way we taught children to read was different, recognising that one system is not the correct system, and that all other systems are used for "disabled" children only as being wrong, perhaps it would change.
    Sure, but they're still a minority. Perhaps dyslexia is a diet-disability, like dwarfism. Dwarves can drive cars just as good as humans but they need leg extensions to reach a vehicle's pedals. Should we manufacture all vehicles to come with dwarf adapter kits? Does this make them special or set back in a human-dominated leg room society?

    In this case, maybe we can meet in the middle and say dyslexia is a disability because it requires alt. methods to work around the majority of people who don't have it.

  5. #35
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BerberElla View Post
    We could argue that the disability is the teaching methods used in this case, maybe?

    If the way we taught children to read was different, recognising that one system is not the correct system, and that all other systems are used for "disabled" children only as being wrong, perhaps it would change.
    Why thank you, well said. You put it well Berbs.
    The thing here is that there is a method that does work and pretty much makes children who exibit these difficulties in reading/writing.math etc, exempt for having any difficulties. I don't understand why so many seem against it.
    Is there anyone in the FOR camp?
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  6. #36
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adoamros View Post
    Sure, but they're still a minority. Perhaps dyslexia is a diet-disability, like dwarfism. Dwarves can drive cars just as good as humans but they need leg extensions to reach a vehicle's pedals. Should we manufacture all vehicles to come with dwarf adapter kits? Does this make them special or set back in a human-dominated leg room society?
    Well no because many display difficulties who do not have dyslexia. Also the teaching method i'm talking about improves literacy/math/co-ordination etc for everyone.
    In reference to the analagy...
    Well, it's not a very good one is it?
    If there were areas of giftedness in driving and all drivers would improve their quality of driving and the quality of say their flying, and all Dwarves and 20% of all non dwarves would also impove in giftedness, then why not. But the analagy has many flaws you can not compare driving for dwarves to dyslexia in the world, it's ridiculous.
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  7. #37
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GemPOPGem View Post
    Well no because many display difficulties who do not have dyslexia. Also the teaching method i'm talking about improves literacy/math/co-ordination etc for everyone.
    In reference to the analagy...
    Well, it's not a very good one is it?
    If there were areas of giftedness in driving and all drivers would improve their quality of driving and the quality of say their flying, and all Dwarves and 20% of all non dwarves would also impove in giftedness, then why not. But the analagy has many flaws you can not compare driving for dwarves to dyslexia in the world, it's ridiculous.
    IDK, perhaps his analogy wasn't fully complete, but the idea behind it is still true--reading is very important, and those who can't read are less able than those who can. Some dyslexics have fantastic spatial abilities that go alongside with their dyslexia but that doesn't negate the trump card of being able to read in our society. Reading is so important to our culture because it adds a multilayered worldview that cannot be replicated by extemporaneous talking.

    People who can't read fluently are labouring away at the exercise of reading rather than performing an automatic activity that lets them think about the message within the words themselves. It's a disability because their brain is working to decode rather than analyze the thoughts behind the words.

    If you can get him to read fluently in another way, awesome, but I'm with Elaur that it might be harmful to tell him he's "gifted" without adding the "disabled" in other areas part.

    Just stress the fact that we all have weaknesses and strengths and we all need to address our weaknesses... I don't see what the big deal is with telling your son he has a weakness. It seems like a recipe for a harsh encounter with reality when he's older and he needs to have reading nailed down firmly in order to succeed (which would require working harder for it than other students).
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  8. #38
    Reptilian Snuggletron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GemPOPGem View Post
    But the analagy has many flaws you can not compare driving for dwarves to dyslexia in the world, it's ridiculous.
    I'm sorry it was the only race I could think of that would have issues operating a normal vehicle.

  9. #39
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GemPOPGem View Post
    As something i feel very passionately about, i have the need to start a thread about Dyslexia and the fact that it is a gift.
    I am not dyslexic although i sometimes wish i were, i feel this way because of the journey i have taken in understanding what dyslexia is and means.
    I have a ten year old son who is (severley) dyslexic. He scores above average in iq tests despite the fact that (until recently) his reading age was 6 and writing age was approx 5 (or ungraded). In all his visual/spatial tests he has consistantly scored in the "gifted" range. I don't need a test to see that my son is gifted. At the age of three the nursery staff brough in 100 piece jigsaw puzzles for him to do as the 12 piece ones did not challange him, infact the 100 piece ones were still not very challanging. At the age of 6 he still could not write his name, until just recently he still reversed and mixed the letters in his name.
    He is incredibly creative and at the age of 5 could independantly do complex lego sets for 12+ year olds using the visual instructions.
    He also has amazing abilities in many other areas, he is a total whizz at chess amoungst other things.
    The school he was in (i took him out) humiliated him and it got to the point that he would cry and get stomach aches every morning befor we even set out.

    Ok, so thats my personal experience regarding my son, i also know many other dyslexics (including other family relations) and have since done some research on the topic.

    My gripe is this, in the majority (not all) of schools

    School education systems are archaic in their teaching styles, they are consistantly letting down up to 10% of the population in their inability to educate dyslexic children in literacy and they inadvertantly discriminate against them.
    It is not just schools but work places too.
    The reason this grates my very being so much is that by doing this fail to see the giftedness of dyslexic individuals.
    Non dyslexics have a lot to learn.

    I know people are starting to understand but many people still see dyslexia as a learning dissability instead of learning difference.
    Infact the style suited to teaching a dyslexic child is also suited to all children and actually achieves higher literacy/numeracy results in ALL children. It is not the children themselves that have the problem but merely an outdated schooling system failing to keep up with giftedness.

    YouTube - dysTalk Talks Dyslexia Disability Or Gift


    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAlO0nEZfIA"][/YOUTUBE]

    I am dyslexic diagnosed at 4.5 when it wasn't trendy. I have spent a lot of time around dyslexics and there are a variety of outcomes, a lot of negative outcomes, or failure to meet their intellectual abilities and aptitudes.

    Dyslexia provide you with a full range of disabilities, including a stakc of secondary handicaps and social stigmas amoung your class mates.

    Real dyslexics can be scard for life from the social factors about their inabilities.

    So gift it is most certainly not. You don't need to be dyslexic to be either intelelgent or creative... so please DON't wish it on anyone

  10. #40
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    My daughter needs extra help in math, she has the ability to understand it, she just needs extra help. That doesn't mean that math class should be changed to make it easier for her - I also have a talented math student that would suffer from such changes.

    I just don't see how trying to relabel something as a gift is any help to anyone. I understand the parallel to ADD, I know that school doesn't help with that way of dealing with the world. (I was diagnosed with it, not sure I actually ever had it). I do like to think that my distractability isn't really a hindrance, but I definitely have had to learn to deal with it. If I don't I can end up with some negative repercussions.

    Isn't it almost more of a put down to say someone doesn't *have* a disability rather than just acknowledging it and working from there?

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