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  1. #101
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    I take offense because you are quoting absolute rubbish. Its the toch people spout when they are "reporting" something someone else has going on... rather than experiencing it.

    I am using information from real statistics and providing links for the information. I am not dyslexic and you are absolutely right that i can not argue from the point of view of a dyslexic individual but that should not mean that i can not argue about it.

    Sound bites form high achievers don't represent the population or respec the rough journey that kids go through.

    Most high achievers would say they had a very rough journey in school because of thier dyslexia. No one is disputing this. I have stated it lots of times myself. My point is that it need'nt be the case.

    I have had a lot of dylsexic kids, with varing degrees of dyslexia....many have creative talents, a few are supper bright, most are reasonably normal intellectually.

    And how would they fair if they had acess to programs that could teach them how to write and write relatively normally/equally?

    There were around 40 diangosed dyslexic kids in my high school, all recevied aditional education support (which was suprsingingly good given the time), out of them I'd say 2 (had very high IQs), most of those other kids were destined to low end jobs and child rearing because they simply wanted out the education system as fast as possible (because tey struggled). Many in this wider group were from social poorer areas.... few would make it out being till work or the likes.

    Well yes that is surprisingly good given the time. I had five friends in high school with dyslexia (plus my brother), all were above average intelligence, all struggled horrifically. All were not diagnosed until they went to college. All went to college except my brother. Of those three have their own businesses two have taken to "child rearing" (nothing wrong with child rearing). One of the child rearing friends is also a freelance artist and attends art college as she now understands her dyslexia. And my brother works for a company and is progressing pretty high up in it-it's not a desk job. All these people had a huge disadvantage in that they were not given appropriate support when they needed it most, in their early education.

    When my mother was at school she had her left arm tied behind her back by the teachers because she was left handed and it was considered a sign of the Devil. When my father was at school he had a friend who would now be considered dyslexic (never diagnosed) who spent a lot of his time in the corner wearing the dunce cap because he couldn't spell. I am glad that we have at least moved on from this.

    I think we can move on much much further.



    For the meidum/higher end of the intellegent ones, not only did they have to spend painful hour after hour working on stuff that was preventing them being exposed to wider experience, but they would repeat it etc.

    I am not disputing that, but what if they had a program that actually worked?

    What words did I encourage kids with... read, even thought it's hard, stick with it, and read what you are interested in. and then park your education in favour of life... Its a barrier to you getting to your goals, but don;t let it stop you.

    I'm the youngest of 11 kids, there are 3 of us who are properly dyslexic (probably 4), although in recent trendiness you 2 more are kidding themselves on they are dylsexic.

    I am an aunt to 24 children, dyslexia runs in the next generation of the family, I'd say there was a decidedly mix bag of results form the dyslexic camp. Some of the brighter oens are certainly not going to meet their potential, and a few have already excelled.

    Many people do not meet their potential for various reasons, having dyslexia is a huge barrier if oyu are not taught in a way in which you can learn.

    One just got a first from Glasgow Art....

    I've watched kids I was educated with go throug the pain of learning, put up wiht the pain of being catogised as stupid by their class mates, I've seen the wee ones in my own life struggle through school and have to work 3 or 4 times hard just to break even...

    Ok, i do not dispute this. I am not saying that this has not happened, i have seen the evdience in my own experience. I know many catastrophic mistakes have been made by the education system regarding dyslexia. I am agreeing with the above. That is not what i am disputing.
    What i am saying is that there is a way in which to teach individuals with dyslexia that works and that it should be used. I am saying there is a better way.



    DECIDELY NOT A GIFT.

    I would say Dyslexia doens't affect intellgence at all, there is a totally normal range within dyslexic people... Education of dyslexics means that the middle to lower range simply crash and burn - even with top flight education and support - which I was lucky enoug to be party too.

    I would disagree with this, i would say that if dyslexic individuals had acess to a program that works effectively, which i believe already exists, then the iq tests would yield much different results. It also comes down to the self esteem of dylexic individuals. How many believe they are stupid? how many have been told so? What if that didn't happen because they were able to read/write relative to their peers?

    Bottom line for me was my desire to know about fairies... I wanted the content of books, so even when I could barely string to words together I was determined... I was 10 before I could tell the differnce betwene a b and D...and still struggle at times...

    I would say that most if not all of dyslexic individuals want to read they just need access to a program that works for them.


    What you can't see is the degree of concentration that becoems totally normal for a dyslexic to just function and a medium poor level.... to grief you have to talk from not very bright SJ types (of the less rounded category) who don't know how to contribute to an intellegent discussion beyond pedanticness. and yes I pitty them a bit for not being too bright (and that is not repreentative of all SJ's).

    Yes i can see that, i have seen it in my own brother and son. I have seen it in many friends. I have seen it in my sons peers. The desperation and frustration that goes with trying to see the letters in order...so that they are not, what he describes as, "dancing" on the page. Again i say we have found a program that works, that stops the "dancing of letters" amoungst many other factors. I'm afraid i don't understand the reference to sj types.


    I'd say your stats were severly skewed, not at all sure were you are picking them up from. From my education the only kids the Educations psycologists were interested in were the seriously bright ones (lab rats)... of which I was one.... I had my IQ measured every year, my areo spacials shocked the life out the testers. I was one of 10 kids in my prmary school t be tested, the rest weren't. So your stats may be misrepresenting reality somewhat....

    Why would you say that when i have provided links, please ask for any links that may be missing, anything specific you would like. Below is a link regarding the need for SEN to pick up on giftedness in individuals with spld (specific learning difficulties)
    Links between SEN and gifted & talented: part 1


    So in actual fact you are saying that dyslexia is NOT improving the quality of an other wise intellgent creative child... it has not contrubtion... The delusion is to devalue you own childs struggle to just get the absics and pass it off as a wonderful gift... GET A LIFE!
    No, that is decidedly not what i am saying. I think we have our wires crossed. What i am saying is that i believe dyslexia is a gift and that the education system fails to educate dyslexic individuals because of their archaic system for teaching and that the education system desperately needs updating.

    I will end with another "bite" as you call it.
    Please watch this link of Henry Winkler talking about dyslexia.
    YouTube - Henry Winkler talks about dyslexia (GMTV, 06.01.10)

    I am not saying that individuals have not had an awful experience in school/life. What i am saying is that it needn't be the case.
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  2. #102
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Who said I or any other dyslexic didn't have access to top notice programmes of education - [edited]

    I apprecaite you love you son and your intentions are not bad, and I do appreciate an unlistenign attitude as a parnet of a dylseix is not nessesarily a bad thing... but you need to look at some of the posts on this thread that say It's certainyl not a gift.

    Just because you cushion your bonkers opinion by blaming it on the education system, doesn't make your opinions any less nuts.


    A couple analogies to help you undrstand.....

    A person can be fited with an artificial limb which will improve the quality fo their life somewhat, but it will not mean that the person is fixed.

    Education to a dyslexic will help but not fix.... When I get employed I always front out I'm dyslexic, and a fair few employers try and sweep it under the carpet as "the spell checker sorts these things out", so I reeducate them that it wont. I can spell words correctly and they are the wrong words, I can sometimes miss bit of sentences (usually when distracted or something like that).
    Last edited by Ivy; 02-14-2010 at 12:36 PM. Reason: removed insult- please attack positions, not people

  3. #103
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    This is reminding me a bit of the neurodiversity debate among autism bloggers, some of whom are actual autistics and others of whom are parents of autistics. The actual autistics frequently resent being told what their experience is/should be by the parents.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  4. #104
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    Who said I or any other dyslexic didn't have access to top notice programmes of education - [edited]


    Many do not and many experience incredibly discriminative school/work lives because of it. I had to fight very very hard even to get my son recognised as dyslexic even though he is severly dyslexic. The school he was in said he had difficulties across the board and even faked his stat results-yes they really dispicably did! They blamed his home life and said he had emotional difficulties when the emotional difficulties he was experiencing were all to do with the way he was treated in school. We have been to therapy regarding this. I have had a real battle on my hands along with at least 11 other parents of children in the same school. We ended up forming a co-op of parents and made complaints as far up as you can go just to have the help given. So i say, and my son says, and the parents and other children say-there is not the help given where it is needed.

    I apprecaite you love you son and your intentions are not bad, and I do appreciate an unlistenign attitude as a parnet of a dylseix is not nessesarily a bad thing... but you need to look at some of the posts on this thread that say It's certainyl not a gift.

    Yes, i have been looking at them and i am saddened to see only one or two positive people with dyslexia posting. It is not my personal experience and there are numerous highly intelligent famous people with dylexia who are happy that they are dyslexic, however they are not happy with the education system. Did you watch the Henry Winkler link?

    Just because you cushion your bonkers opinion by blaming it on the education system, doesn't make your opinions any less nuts.

    Ok, here we have to disagree because i do not think it is bonkers at all, i really truely don't. And i am absolutely sure you can see they education system has made many mistakes in the past? Surely they were wrong to put dunce hats on people who found it hard to spell


    A couple analogies to help you undrstand.....

    A person can be fited with an artificial limb which will improve the quality fo their life somewhat, but it will not mean that the person is fixed.

    Again we will have to agree to disagree because i do not see it this way at all. I don't see dyslexia as something that needs fixing or something that is innately missing.

    Education to a dyslexic will help but not fix.... When I get employed I always front out I'm dyslexic, and a fair few employers try and sweep it under the carpet as "the spell checker sorts these things out", so I reeducate them that it wont. I can spell words correctly and they are the wrong words, I can sometimes miss bit of sentences (usually when distracted or something like that).
    I agree that a spell checker will not sort out spelling for someone with dyslexia, indeed a lot of the time it does not help me spell either although it can be handy (for me) in some respects. Can i ask you what programs you did at school in relation to dyslexia?

    P.s I'd be grateful if you could stop the personal insults.
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  5. #105
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    This is reminding me a bit of the neurodiversity debate among autism bloggers, some of whom are actual autistics and others of whom are parents of autistics. The actual autistics frequently resent being told what their experience is/should be by the parents.
    I understand i am not dyslexic and can not say what it is personally like. I do not argue with the difficulties faced by dyslexic individuals, it is part of what drives me. I am simply trying to find an alternative to an education system that fails to meet the needs of dyslexic individuals. And yes the controversial aspect is that i do believe dyslexia (by and large) is giftedness. I think that is what most people disagree with me on. But i do believe it, genuinely honestly and truely and i do not think this makes me bonkers. As regards to Autism, i also have a child with Autism but i need to learn a lot more about it and how to unlock the potential befor i start posting about it.
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  6. #106
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Everyone with a handicap is gifted with a birden.... YEA! go them!

    I agree the education can be improved right across the board, having been given top flight support, the kids most dyslexic's kids mammas would drool over, it simply provide a range of coping mechanisims, not a cure... it isn't fixable.

    Possible reason you've not had a whole bunch of possitive dyslexics posting, is because they didn't make it through the system.

    It's ever so easy for men to say child birth is a picnic... but it's hugely patronising to hear how easy it is (ultimately it's the same shit)

  7. #107
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    Everyone with a handicap is gifted with a birden.... YEA! go them!

    Sarcasm hmmm

    I agree the education can be improved right across the board, having been given top flight support, the kids most dyslexic's kids mammas would drool over, it simply provide a range of coping mechanisims, not a cure... it isn't fixable.

    I have not once mentioned "fixing" dyslexia.

    Possible reason you've not had a whole bunch of possitive dyslexics posting, is because they didn't make it through the system.

    I don't know why, possibly because they have been so let down that they do not feel gifted-possibly but i really do not know.

    It's ever so easy for men to say child birth is a picnic... but it's hugely patronising to hear how easy it is (ultimately it's the same shit)
    Actually i'd say childbirth is a gift and that is something i have experienced.
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  8. #108
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GemPOPGem View Post
    And yes the controversial aspect is that i do believe dyslexia (by and large) is giftedness. I think that is what most people disagree with me on.
    Interesting thread. This caught my eye. Are you saying that dylexics have a diiferent form of giftedness than other gifted children? or how do they compare? Do you think the nondyslexic gifted kids have an advantage or a disadvantage?
    -end of thread-

  9. #109
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    More sarcasim (surprisingly enough:the reason you've not had any lucky wonderfully gifted dyslexics posting is becuase it sulks... and no amout of education is a magic bullet.

  10. #110
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    "The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education."

    "The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."

    "Most teachers waste their time by asking questions which are intended to discover what a pupil does not know, whereas the true art of questioning has for its purpose to discover what the pupil knows or is capable of knowing."

    I meant to include theese in my last post, because i like them, they have meaning to me.
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

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