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  1. #21
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    I would dispute that there are people with asbergers that may not live independantly, providing that they have no other medical conditions-which would render them dependant. I think the idea is a farce that some are not capable, it's all about accessing the right help, to help them become independant, which i believe is totally possible for ALL people on the autistic spectrum. We now have brilliant programs like the son-rise and Ron Davis program, if more people were open minded, if the school systems would come out of the dark ages and see the light then we would not have the attitude of some can some can't. It's about understanding it and unlocking the genius.
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  2. #22
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little_Sticks View Post
    ^Well, it's all perspective of course, hence the disclaimer. But if the guy was put in a classroom where he obsessively put a towel on his head then obviously that wasn't the appropriate environment for him. My words were intended to be directed at those people who are given the proper environments and encouragement to grow their minds (or opportunity) and do not. And yes I realize we could go on and on about whether or not those that do not grow their minds, given the proper environments and encouragement, are actually given the 'proper environments and encouragement', but to argue that is almost akin to arguing that everyone is a shining star or genius given the right circumstances and it's a moot point. So what I'm getting at is I don't think it's unlikely to imagine there are people who just aren't that bright or smart. Now you don't have to agree with that statement, but understand that I'm endorsing a statistical outlook based on my observations and experience of those people around me and not simply stating as fact that some people are stupid. At the core I'm a reasonable being (willing to sacrifice my well-being for other people if reasonable) and if I ever became a parent I imagine I would probably love my child and want to do what is best for him/her no matter even if he/she was retarded, but really guys (and the motivation for me posting this), grouping together to jointly 'one up' me and make this personal for what I said for reasons that aren't important to me to understand is really unnecessary, aspergers, autism, or neurotypical as any of you may (be)/(consider yourself).

    The infinite ability of human beings to belittle and demean other people to endorse their own position and outlook in life constantly amazes me. One would think by now I would be hardened to it, but it doesn't seem to matter what anyone is, it always happens, and it's always unnecessarily hurtful - an always scary proposition. Is it too much to ask that an Aspie not have to deal with the same crap they get from neurotypicals from aspies? Perhaps so... The only reason I even made that comment to tinker was because I saw that he/she was being very honest and I wanted to maybe clarify a thought he/she had that I once had without having to spend time agonizing over it when people stupidly treat him/her bad simply because they just don't like him/her, not caring about how that makes the other person feel or why they act the way they do. A lot of well-being comes from perception, and it's especially important for an aspie to come to the most objective conclusions that they can so they aren't putting themselves down and getting personal over things that are best left as not personal.

    Now I don't care for making this personal as I was trying to maybe help Tinker, if at all possible, and I know how the rest of this will play out, it will continue to be an attack on my thoughts until I'm made to feel like a fool and compromise my conclusions for the sake of not enjoying being attacked; unless you take this information and use it as an opportunity to pretend you weren't making anything personal and wouldn't attack my thoughts any further, but I don't think I really care either way. So this is the last post I'll make here in this thread. Have fun discussing. <vanishes>
    Wow! well i'm sorry you took this so personally. It certainly was not a personal attack of any description, i know what that feels like and it wasn't my intention at all.
    I just disagree with the generalisation thats all. And i personally belive it to not be the case. As far as i know there are many people with brain damage/mental retardation and conditions such as downs syndrome which i suppose could be on the list of "never will be bright" however all of theese could be determined by brain scans and to be honest my verdict still remains open regarding them.

    I was referring to the general "if someone looks dumb, acts dumb..then they are dumb" view. Which i believe is rubbish. That genral attitude would lead me to believe the person stating it really has no idea of what they are talking about. Not you personally little sticks, it's the attitude of many that gets my goat.
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  3. #23
    Senior Member Little_Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GemPOPGem View Post
    ...That genral attitude would lead me to believe the person stating it really has no idea of what they are talking about. Not you personally little sticks, it's the attitude of many that gets my goat.
    Oh...the thought that that might have been your meaning did cross my mind, but I guess I invalidated it. Or rather maybe it the idea of being seen as one of those people that motivated me to try and correct the perception of me, perhaps. Ugh, I don't want to clutter this. But umm, sorry too.

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