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  1. #11
    Senior Member tinker683's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little_Sticks View Post
    Consider this what you will, but if someone acts stupid all the time, can they still be called smart? Even if it can be reasoned they have a lot of great understanding and powerful intellectual reasoning going on in their thoughts that they never apply?

    I hate to tell you this, and I know you will have to figure it out yourself, but most people don't show it because they aren't 'smart' to begin with. And here I'm using 'smart' to mean 'smart' from your internally analyzing perspective, where smart is figuring out the nuts and bolts of a machine and 'not smart' would be taking that for granted and using the machine for a purpose while not understanding how it works.
    Good point. Sounds a lot like me and cars
    "The man who is swimming against the stream knows the strength of it."
    ― Woodrow Wilson

  2. #12
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    I usually try to be (very) direct, keep calm, stick to my guns, don't take things personally, and keep a sense of humor.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  3. #13
    Senior Member proximo's Avatar
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    My daughter has Asperger's, and I also work as a carer in a residential college for young adults (16 to 25) with autism of varying severity. I've spent the last 11 years of my daughter's life learning and reading and studying the autism spectrum, and meeting up with lots of autistic people, their specialists and their families.

    I find that the best approach is just to live in the moment with them. They like reassurance as to what's going to happen in the immediate future, but beyond that, there's no need to go into it. They respond well to a calm demeanour, open and positive body language.

    I've really not known any of them to hold a grudge as such, so I don't think you need to worry about that. When the immediate future suddenly becomes a question mark, that's a big source of anxiety. But long after the event, when it's now in the past, as long as the current situation is "secure", you can usually reason through what happened in the past without fearing a bad reaction. The past isn't threatening, because it's a known entity, they're pretty matter-of-fact about it.

    They're kind of like cats, in a way... you can't force yourself on them, you have to let them come to you and keep your eye out for any signs of communication, respond confidently and un-self-consciously.

    But sometimes they don't think to communicate their needs; I don't think it's an instictive thing to think "if I say this to another person, my need could be met", they're quite likely to just sort of suffer in silence and find some way to compensate or adapt internally to their lack. So keep an eye out for that, and ask specific questions.

    For example, "is everything okay?", like "how are you?", is very often a rhetorical question in reality, and an older Aspie has probably learned that you're supposed to just say "yes", regardless. It's better to look closely at their work and target your question towards an aspect of it that you think they might be struggling with. "Do you want me to explain this part to you again?", pointing to the place in their book, is better.

    The learning style though, is very much visual. I've also found with some of the people I work with, that a visual timeline can be useful and very reassuring for them. You can put symbols or pictures (or words if they can read) on this timeline so they can look at it to reassure themselves about what's going to happen and in what order.

    You can also use 'social stories' to help them come to terms with things: "on Tuesday there was a lot of snow. Cars often get stuck in snow, and the people driving them have to wait a long time in the cold, without any food, for somebody to rescue them. Nobody wants to be in this situation, so on Tuesday when it started to snow, the staff decided to go home early, before the snow became too deep. This way, nobody got stuck in the snow. Because the staff had gone home early, Mark couldn't have his English lesson that day, so instead he went home and watched TV/played with his Lego/read a book about turtles. The following Tuesday, his English lessons resumed as usual, and everything was okay."

    They'd remember that story and in the future you could refer to it to help deal with similar situations. You'd only have to say "if it snows this afternoon, I might have to go home early" and they'll access that story in their head and be cool with it. You can do a pre-emptive one as well, to prepare them for an uncertain immediate future. Something like "if signs of severe weather are observed from the windows, I'll need to go home before the end of the lesson, to make sure I get home safely. If this happens, Mark will go home too, and we'll continue lessons next week as usual." Depending on the individual, you might need to add "the weather is nobody's fault, it just happens" - I know one guy who's a tad paranoid, and has actually blamed staff for deliberately making it snow so they could go home!!

    But most of them respond very well to scientific facts.

    I could go on for days... but I'll leave you with that for now
    I'm male and over 30, FYI.
    Preferences: 20% Extravert, 98% Intuitive, 68% Thinker, 17% Perceiving

  4. #14
    Senior Member proximo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    don't take things personally
    x 10000 to this one
    I'm male and over 30, FYI.
    Preferences: 20% Extravert, 98% Intuitive, 68% Thinker, 17% Perceiving

  5. #15
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little_Sticks View Post
    Consider this what you will, but if someone acts stupid all the time, can they still be called smart? Even if it can be reasoned they have a lot of great understanding and powerful intellectual reasoning going on in their thoughts that they never apply?

    I hate to tell you this, and I know you will have to figure it out yourself, but most people don't show it because they aren't 'smart' to begin with. And here I'm using 'smart' to mean 'smart' from your internally analyzing perspective, where smart is figuring out the nuts and bolts of a machine and 'not smart' would be taking that for granted and using the machine for a purpose while not understanding how it works.
    Well it depends on the context but by and large i would most certainly disagree. Ron Davis, like many others did not speak till he was seventeen. The mans a genuis but was put in the corner of his class room with a towl over his head through out most of his younger school days and considered an imbecile.
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  6. #16
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GemPOPGem View Post
    Well it depends on the context but by and large i would most certainly disagree. Ron Davis, like many others did not speak till he was seventeen. The mans a genuis but was put in the corner of his class room with a towl over his head through out most of his younger school days and considered an imbecile.
    +1
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  7. #17
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    +2
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  8. #18
    Member Aimee's Avatar
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    I worked with a number of students with this diagnosis at the School for the Blind and Visually Impaired. Asperger's is quite a large spectrum. I knew kids with it who would never live independently. However, there are many people who are quite successful who fit the same criteria. Many computer programmers have it. There's also that famous veterinarian who wrote a highly acclaimed book about her work. It's on my list although I haven't read it yet. I remember in an interview with her on NPR she was said when she would go to dinner with people she would plan ahead & rehearse & roleplay beforehand. That technique was very helpful to my students' success in the social sphere.

  9. #19
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Temple Grandin? Love her. I believe she says she has HFA, not Asperger's, but I think they're considering merging them into one classification in the next edition of the DSM anyway.

    Did you see the biopic on HBO about her? I haven't yet, but I'd like to.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  10. #20
    Senior Member Little_Sticks's Avatar
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    Consider this what you will...
    ^Well, it's all perspective of course, hence the disclaimer. But if the guy was put in a classroom where he obsessively put a towel on his head then obviously that wasn't the appropriate environment for him. My words were intended to be directed at those people who are given the proper environments and encouragement to grow their minds (or opportunity) and do not. And yes I realize we could go on and on about whether or not those that do not grow their minds, given the proper environments and encouragement, are actually given the 'proper environments and encouragement', but to argue that is almost akin to arguing that everyone is a shining star or genius given the right circumstances and it's a moot point. So what I'm getting at is I don't think it's unlikely to imagine there are people who just aren't that bright or smart. Now you don't have to agree with that statement, but understand that I'm endorsing a statistical outlook based on my observations and experience of those people around me and not simply stating as fact that some people are stupid. At the core I'm a reasonable being (willing to sacrifice my well-being for other people if reasonable) and if I ever became a parent I imagine I would probably love my child and want to do what is best for him/her no matter even if he/she was retarded, but really guys (and the motivation for me posting this), grouping together to jointly 'one up' me and make this personal for what I said for reasons that aren't important to me to understand is really unnecessary, aspergers, autism, or neurotypical as any of you may (be)/(consider yourself).

    The infinite ability of human beings to belittle and demean other people to endorse their own position and outlook in life constantly amazes me. One would think by now I would be hardened to it, but it doesn't seem to matter what anyone is, it always happens, and it's always unnecessarily hurtful - an always scary proposition. Is it too much to ask that an Aspie not have to deal with the same crap they get from neurotypicals from aspies? Perhaps so... The only reason I even made that comment to tinker was because I saw that he/she was being very honest and I wanted to maybe clarify a thought he/she had that I once had without having to spend time agonizing over it when people stupidly treat him/her bad simply because they just don't like him/her, not caring about how that makes the other person feel or why they act the way they do. A lot of well-being comes from perception, and it's especially important for an aspie to come to the most objective conclusions that they can so they aren't putting themselves down and getting personal over things that are best left as not personal.

    Now I don't care for making this personal as I was trying to maybe help Tinker, if at all possible, and I know how the rest of this will play out, it will continue to be an attack on my thoughts until I'm made to feel like a fool and compromise my conclusions for the sake of not enjoying being attacked; unless you take this information and use it as an opportunity to pretend you weren't making anything personal and wouldn't attack my thoughts any further, but I don't think I really care either way. So this is the last post I'll make here in this thread. Have fun discussing. <vanishes>

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