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Thread: Tradition

  1. #11
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Um... one word: J.O.K.E.!!

    I mean, I even put a smiley in and everything!


    (another point on the athenian-is-xNTJ chart lol)
    Well, I interpreted the smiley as laughing at the idea rather than as indicating a joke. If you had used this one this one , or even this one , I would have known what you meant.

    Are you determined to convince people I'm a fiercely competitive and argumentative cutthroat or something? What did I do to deserve this?

  2. #12
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypomanic View Post
    Okay Neptune

    Just don't spear me with your trident
    Um, it's King Lear...?

    sheesh, it's one of those days for me I think...
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  3. #13
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    Just like laws.
    Good observation. I wonder if that is why traditional people are so much more prone to upholding the laws than the rest of general society. An SJ trait in addition to a love for tradition? I suppose that would be why strong SJ's call me an anarchist when I challenge their traditional beliefs.

    I can see from substitute's answer that traditions do have benefits that I didn't see beforehand. And I can see from athenian's answer that they historically had significance and continue to do so. My question now, is when tradition goes bad or becomes useless, what is the most appropriate way to bring about necessary change in thought and action?

    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    Are you determined to convince people I'm a fiercely competitive and argumentative cutthroat or something? What did I do to deserve this?
    Oh we already knew that. What analytical INFJ isn't? That's why we love you.

  4. #14
    Member Hypomanic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Um, it's King Lear...?

    sheesh, it's one of those days for me I think...
    He looks like Neptune, its not my fault that you have an unflattering picture of him. Also, it's not like I'm the one trying to cover my ass on the original convo saying that, 'Oh, they know I'm only joking.'


    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    Well, I interpreted the smiley as laughing at the idea rather than as indicating a joke.
    Heh.

  5. #15
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Oh we already knew that. What analytical INFJ isn't? That's why we love you.
    Please tell me you're kidding, Kiddo. If I come across like that, perhaps I shouldn't even come here anymore. That's definitely not how I want to be seen.


    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    Just like laws.
    Law itself is often a tradition. English common law is a good example of that. It's also part of why SJ's make good lawyers. Very insightful, PinkPiranha.

  6. #16
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    Well, I interpreted the smiley as laughing at the idea rather than as indicating a joke. If you had used this one this one , or even this one , I would have known what you meant.

    Are you determined to convince people I'm a fiercely competitive and argumentative cutthroat or something? What did I do to deserve this?
    Sorry, miscommunication, just forget I said anything, I didn't mean any harm, certainly meant no insult (everyone knows how I love xNTJ's and would never mean it as a bad thing if I said someone reminded me of them). Every damn thing's going wrong for me today so I should have just kept my big mouth shut. Sorry again, seriously. I think I'm just gonna go and hide in a hole now
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  7. #17
    Member Hypomanic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    My question now, is when tradition goes bad or becomes useless, what is the most appropriate way to bring about necessary change in thought and action?
    My guess is to become a member of the cabinet? Depending on the extent you wish to bring about change. Being a revolutionary has worked in the past, but that usually ends in assassination of the often ingenious leader (JFK, Lincoln, ...). Unfortunately, change takes time... a longgg time. Those of us who are intuitive enough to respect/foresee change, can only wait persistently as others catch on (or fail to do so).

    Ultimately I suspect all I can do is respect the reforms that have made my life comfortable today, while I do my best to see that positive changes (that are under my control throughout my lifetime) are established. (Needless to say I'm just a college student... but this day will come, just thought I'd give my stance)

  8. #18
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    Please tell me you're kidding, Kiddo. If I come across like that, perhaps I shouldn't even come here anymore. That's definitely not how I want to be seen.
    Oh come now. You can't control how people percieve you on the internet. If I have learned anything on these forums, it's that if you ever stand up for what you believe in or make others reconsider their argument, then somebody is going to consider you argumentative or rude. I like anyone who has the tenacity to challenge preconceptions.

  9. #19
    Member Hypomanic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Oh come now. You can't control how people percieve you on the internet. If I have learned anything on these forums, it's that if you ever stand up for what you believe in or make others reconsider their argument, then somebody is going to consider you argumentative or rude. I like anyone who has the tenacity to challenge preconceptions.
    That said, me too. It's respectable, it shows initiative.

  10. #20
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    I think it could be that iNtuitives, by definition, tend usually to look behind/through/between, into the abstract and are therefore more likely to notice when a tradition has become bad. I think they might also be more likely to actually correctly diagnose when something is being done purely out of tradition. (edit - cue ptgatsby 'anything you can do we can do better' rant lol)
    Not at all. S's ethnocentrism/dogma etc is an evolutionary advantage in groups, but it's decidedly not superior in the present day.

    Think of it like the free market - Ss are blind actors inside the market, but the market works because of large scale dynamics. Ns are not as blind, thus leading to distortions in the macro picture, making it less efficient.

    The difference is that technology growth over the last 2000 years has removed the original evolutionary reason for ethnocentrism - there is increasingly less value for the adherence to small geographical norms and an increase for alignment with value systems that can be quantified (ie: death of religion through an increase of objectivism, rationalism, humanism... or decrease of nationalism and an increase of non-geographical social networks). The new forms of tradition will grow from how it supports the tools we have - once upon a time the community required more social watchdogs, previous to written law... now we needs rules for how to handle information (ie: copyright) across hundreds of different sets of rules. Social changes are unable to keep up with the newest changes brought up by the information age - just wait till the bio age hits us... but it was the same tribal traditions that changed when the agrian age started.

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