Common sense - what is it and who has it?

[Atomic Fiend]

Common sense is a swearword! Something to be looked down on! The word makes me feel sick ...

I don't even think it exists.

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

Santtu's dictionary

Entry: Common sense
-commonly considered as practical, sensible, common, real, usual and obvious.

Common sense can be gathered by observing what appears to senses (Se), experimenting, and thinking about it (Ti).

It can also be gathered by agreeing to commonly held opinions in a group (Fe) and recalling past experiences (Si).

Moreover, it can be gathered by influencing something concrete (S) and noticing how one's decisions work out in the real world and how they affect what is commonly thought about (Te).

Understanding everyone's personal feelings and value judgements (Fi) is also part of the common sense.

Ne can find many connections, some of which are practical - but I don't see Ni connected with "common sense" at all.

Common Sense Scoring chart: Se 5, Si & Te 4, Ti & Fe 3, Fi 2, Ne 1, Ni 0 points.

Person's common sense score = 3* score of first function + 2* that of second + 1* that of third function.

Compiling all, here's my corrected common sense ranking list! (had IP switched with IJ and vice versa).
ESTP
ESFP
ISTJ
ESTJ
ISFJ
ISTP
ESFJ
ENTJ
ISFP
INTP
ENFJ
INFP
ENTP
ENFP
INTJ
INFJ
But who are you to trust (such a low-ranking) ENTP on this matter?

Edit: I feel compelled to comment on ESFP's high ranking on my list. I could call that type "The Popularist" .. their common sense circling around their title.

 

[JivinJeffJones]

Compiling all, here's my common sense ranking list!
ESTP
ESFP
ISTP
ESTJ
ISFP
ISTJ
ESFJ
ENTJ
ISFJ
INTJ
ENFJ
INFJ
ENTP
ENFP
INTP
INFP

Somewhat surprising, but not implausible. I would accept that. I'm mostly surprised that INTJs rank so lowly. ESFPs are kicking their asses there. Maybe Te should receive higher weighting? The bottom 3 are not at all surprising to me, and suggest that your list has probably got it right.

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

Somewhat surprising, but not implausible. I would accept that. I'm mostly surprised that INTJs rank so lowly. ESFPs are kicking their asses there. Maybe Te should receive higher weighting? The bottom 3 are not at all surprising to me, and suggest that your list has probably got it right.

My listing had IP switched with IJ and vice versa. Ooops.. moreover, I should have given more thought to the mathematical function that combines all the scores from the Jungian functions. Hm.

 

[INTJMom]

Yeah. My father is an ESTP and doesn't know which end of a hammer to use.

 

[DaRick]

Santtu's dictionary

Entry: Common sense
-commonly considered as practical, sensible, common, real, usual and obvious.

Common sense can be gathered by observing what appears to senses (Se), experimenting, and thinking about it (Ti).

It can also be gathered by agreeing to commonly held opinions in a group (Fe) and recalling past experiences (Si).

Moreover, it can be gathered by influencing something concrete (S) and noticing how one's decisions work out in the real world and how they affect what is commonly thought about (Te).

Understanding everyone's personal feelings and value judgements (Fi) is also part of the common sense.

Ne can find many connections, some of which are practical - but I don't see Ni connected with "common sense" at all.

Edit: I feel compelled to comment on ESFP's high ranking on my list. I could call that type "The Popularist" .. their common sense circling around their title.

Really? An ESFP with common-sense? I have an ESFP friend who rarely displays any sort of understanding of common-sense.

As for my personal views on common-sense: I am not very good at using it, as my mother often points out, although I still acknowledge the need for common sense in my life.

I tend to form my definition of common sense through introspection and reflection, through the opinions of others (my Mum), through stupid things that I have done in the past (such as answer a question incorrectly for fun ) and even guessing what'll happen if I don't try to apply common sense to a certain situation. However, since my ability to use common sense properly is somewhat limited, I tend to make the same mistake several times before finally getting the message, if you know what I mean.

 

[FDG]

P's are dependent upon what? P's are more likely to separate themselves from the group structure which makes them more autonomous. J's are more likely to work together for the common good, while P's are more likely to simply act on their own.

Just let's stop this silly match. Independence is not type related, not all ENTJs want to be leaders, and Js don't have more willpower than Ps.

But they're that much more vulnerable and dependent on the ones they are part of. Often, they just don't have the will-power and self-determination to decide that something is bad for them, and to act on that.

They may be better at assessing risk than you and thus decide that they don't care, for example. Or they may feel that, given their subjective preferences, following action X is not bad for them.

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

Commenting on lack of common sense on some types on my chart.. what some of those types have instead, is uncommon sense, understanding and capability through unusual means.

It was not a capability or coping ability chart.

How do they not fullfill the criteria of common sense in my book?

They may..
-arrive at conclusions through independent means
-challenge popular opinion
-be generally disagreeable
-desire to be correct rather than accepted, even at the cost of losing popular support for their idea
-be of investigating type
-not participate in groupthink
-seek long-term solutions rather than quick fixes´
-be practical in a less obvious way, rather than more obvious
-work against the system, rather than going along with it
-let theoretical or ethical values stop them
-not accept society's values or norms at face value

 

[Athenian200]

Commenting on lack of common sense on some types on my chart.. what some of those types have instead, is uncommon sense, understanding and capability through unusual means.

It was not a capability or coping ability chart.

How do they not fullfill the criteria of common sense in my book?

They may..
-arrive at conclusions through independent means
-challenge popular opinion
-be generally disagreeable
-desire to be correct rather than accepted, even at the cost of losing popular support for their idea
-be of investigating type
-not participate in groupthink
-seek long-term solutions rather than quick fixes´
-be practical in a less obvious way, rather than more obvious
-work against the system, rather than going along with it
-let theoretical or ethical values stop them
-not accept society's values or norms at face value

Yes! This is why I don't have much common sense. I want to do most of the things on this list... although I've pretended to do some of them occasionally because I didn't want to make people angry.

That doesn't mean I ACTUALLY accepted (internally) the things they told me, though...

 

[DaRick]

Since my posting system refuses to work properly , I would have to say that the first, second, fifth, sixth, ninth and tenth reasons for a lack of common sense in Santtu's last post definitely apply to me, although I get into trouble when trying to implement the ninth. The third and seventh reasons don't apply to me. The fourth reason does apply to a certain extent, although acceptance is somewhat important to me. The eighth could also apply. I'm not sure about the eleventh - what could a societial norm be defined as? There are obviously some societial norms (such as 'murder is a serious crime') which you'd obviously accept straight off. Also, what do you mean by 'at face value'?

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

I'm not sure about the eleventh - what could a societial norm be defined as? There are obviously some societial norms (such as 'murder is a serious crime') which you'd obviously accept straight off. Also, what do you mean by 'at face value'?

I too agree that murder is a serious crime

But then there's lot of value judgements that people repeat amongst themselves without studying them; like that a job where you take care of people must be more valuable than one where you take care of machines, because people are more valuable than machines. Disagreement is handled by emphatetic counter-claim, "would you like to be left untreated, dieing on the street?"

(Yet there can be ineffective treatment, or some person's involvement in the treatment outcome may be very small. It may be that some other job increases people's wellbeing more by reducing risks of accidents, etc.)

Then norms. What I thought of as norms is that "a decent person stays quiet in the bus." or "it's ok to be loud an obnoxious on friday night" or "employed person should be appreciated more than an unemployed one". Some of those might be true to some extent more often than not.. but they're still something far from something to be universally agreed upon. Yet many people would gladly accept such norms without giving them a second thought.

Face value: apparent value, intended value. Or that's what I intended it to mean

 

[Xander]

Common Sense.
Initial analysis, a part of logic, basic logical processes.

It is common sense to tie your shoe laces so the leftover parts of your shoe laces aren't so long that you trip over them. It's also logical to do that too.

In terms of types that have common sense I'd say it's entirely context sensitive. An INTP can totally miss a detail like tying their shoe laces, esp tying them "right", but an INTP who focuses on the task would logically deduce a sensible way of doing it even if it's not common sense, the accepted result of an analysis of the task at hand.

You could argue that STs would be best at common sense as they would more readily accept common practices into their thinking but that's also dependant upon the circumstances. My friend (ISTJ) will wear slippers outside of the house. To him it's a matter of what he was wearing when he decided to come out but it'd be more inline with common sense and logic to change your footwear so as not to bring in dirt with your slipper and also if it rains he's going to soak his slippers and his feet!

It may be that INTJs have the most common sense as they are always right
However when you find one doing things perfectly when all that is required and indeed wanted is an adequate solution, that's not using their common sense to restrict their solution to what is necessary. It's going over the top.

Hell even the definition of common sense is context sensitive, as has been mentioned. It could be representative of the standard solution or it could represent merely thinking more about a task before leaping in "if you'd used a bit of common you would have noticed that...."

 

[DaRick]

I too agree that murder is a serious crime

But then there's lot of value judgements that people repeat amongst themselves without studying them; like that a job where you take care of people must be more valuable than one where you take care of machines, because people are more valuable than machines. Disagreement is handled by emphatetic counter-claim, "would you like to be left untreated, dieing on the street?"

(Yet there can be ineffective treatment, or some person's involvement in the treatment outcome may be very small. It may be that some other job increases people's wellbeing more by reducing risks of accidents, etc.)

Then norms. What I thought of as norms is that "a decent person stays quiet in the bus." or "it's ok to be loud an obnoxious on friday night" or "employed person should be appreciated more than an unemployed one". Some of those might be true to some extent more often than not.. but they're still something far from something to be universally agreed upon. Yet many people would gladly accept such norms without giving them a second thought.

Face value: apparent value, intended value. Or that's what I intended it to mean

I don't necessarily have these commonly-held viewpoints, although it is inarguable that, from an economic perspective, an employed person would contribute more to the GDP of a nation than an unemployed person will, due to their productivity. The one about the bus could also form because annoying other passengers is not considered to be courteous. Life is also commonly held as the greatest priority in a pro-life society, which may be aided by integrated religious beliefs (i.e - my Catholic faith). So I do understand how these social norms form.

It is common sense to tie your shoe laces so the leftover parts of your shoe laces aren't so long that you trip over them. It's also logical to do that too.
In terms of types that have common sense I'd say it's entirely context sensitive. An INTP can totally miss a detail like tying their shoe laces, esp tying them "right".

I miss this specific detail initially, but I rectify it as soon as I can see it. I see myself as fairly observant, but I tend to miss minor details, while the rest of my family don't.

You could argue that STs would be best at common sense as they would more readily accept common practices into their thinking but that's also dependant upon the circumstances.

Probably true. My ISTP father and ISTJ brother are great exponents of common sense. This is one of the main reasons why I changed from an ISTJ to an INTJ - I struggle to use common sense properly on a regular basis.

It may be that INTJs have the most common sense as they are always right.

However, I certainly don't remember thinking like this. The amount of common sense in INTJ's seems to vary. There are one or two INTJ's I know who use common sense well, but there are others who don't (like me).

However when you find one doing things perfectly when all that is required and indeed wanted is an adequate solution, that's not using their common sense to restrict their solution to what is necessary. It's going over the top.

Yes, this sounds like me. Expending a ridiculous amount of energy and frustrating myself doing a seemingly menial task, just so I can do it 'my way' perfectly (i.e - writing a lot while solving a problem when all that was required was a few concise sentences. ).

 

[INTJMom]

...Yes, this sounds like me. Expending a ridiculous amount of energy and frustrating myself doing a seemingly menial task, just so I can do it 'my way' perfectly...

I used to be like this, too! I am so thankful I can say "used to" because I have learned so much from my ISTP husband about balancing out time effectiveness and perfection (which doesn't actually exist anyway).

When I think about how frustrated I used to get about the smallest things - even to the point of tears!

I remember crying in frustration because I was chopping a carrot to put in a homemade soup. I thought it was incumbent upon me to make each slice of carrot of equal width. As I worked my way toward the narrow end of the carrot, the equal width no longer seemed equitable, so I switched over to making each slice equal in "mass". I became upset because I was sure I wasn't doing it perfectly.

I remember the day I scored a great victory when I was able to - without any regret - hold a mushroom in my hand over the pot and just cut it up any which way into my spaghetti sauce!

 

[JivinJeffJones]

I remember the day I scored a great victory when I was able to - without any regret - hold a mushroom in my hand over the pot and just cut it up any which way into my spaghetti sauce!

But that's not fair! Some people will get larger slices of mushrooms than others! Nutritional intake would have been inequitable, especially if you did not control the number of mushroom slices issued per serving. :steam:

 

[INTJMom]

But that's not fair! Some people will get larger slices of mushrooms than others! Nutritional intake would have been inequitable, especially if you did not control the number of mushroom slices issued per serving. :steam:

Sorry. I'm not putting that albatross back around my neck!

 

[Xander]

INTJMom,
I'm guessing that cooking is not a form of relief and relaxation to you then.

Note to self, never invite INTJMom round she'd have a coronary on the door step.

 

[INTJMom]

INTJMom,
I'm guessing that cooking is not a form of relief and relaxation to you then.

Note to self, never invite INTJMom round she'd have a coronary on the door step.

:yim_rolling_on_the_ That was very amusing!

Seriously, I laughed really hard. No, it's not a form of relief or relaxation. I am a pretty good cook though, as far as my food tasting good. I'm just a basic meat and potatoes kind of cook which I guess is just as well since a couple of my kids are fussy. I prefer a meal that only takes about 30 minutes or less to prepare.

 

[DaRick]

I used to be like this, too! I am so thankful I can say "used to" because I have learned so much from my ISTP husband about balancing out time effectiveness and perfection (which doesn't actually exist anyway).

When I think about how frustrated I used to get about the smallest things - even to the point of tears!

I remember crying in frustration because I was chopping a carrot to put in a homemade soup. I thought it was incumbent upon me to make each slice of carrot of equal width. As I worked my way toward the narrow end of the carrot, the equal width no longer seemed equitable, so I switched over to making each slice equal in "mass". I became upset because I was sure I wasn't doing it perfectly.

I remember the day I scored a great victory when I was able to - without any regret - hold a mushroom in my hand over the pot and just cut it up any which way into my spaghetti sauce!

Amusing, although I can identify with what you are saying about absolute perfectionism. It makes me wonder whether INTJ's, by nature, suffer from a mild form of obsessive-complusive disorder...not to be offensive or anything.

 

[Xander]

:yim_rolling_on_the_ That was very amusing!

Seriously, I laughed really hard. No, it's not a form of relief or relaxation. I am a pretty good cook though, as far as my food tasting good. I'm just a basic meat and potatoes kind of cook which I guess is just as well since a couple of my kids are fussy. I prefer a meal that only takes about 30 minutes or less to prepare.

Meals that take longer than 30 minutes seem to require the same dedication as the birch twig form of relaxation. Personally I'll only be in the kitchen for more than 30 minutes if there's loud music on and no one else in the house.

My personal cheat with cooking (aside from frozen pizza ) is casserole. For some reason it's the one thing I do well though I dislike cooking and so don't really exercise this talent more often than is absolutely necessary.

Oh and I'm glad you can laugh at it. I was actually quite worried you'd have my head for that joke.