User Tag List

First 23456 Last

Results 31 to 40 of 86

  1. #31
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Enneagram
    1w2
    Posts
    5,514

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post

    Actually I'd describe this as something similar though. I think the closer a person is to INTP the more autonomous they are. Observation clearly shows that INTP is the most autonomous type while their opposite ESFJ is the least autonomous type. Also when you examine each of the "letters" individually you see that I's are more autonomous than E's. N's are more autonomous than S's, T's are more autonomous than F's, and P's are more autonomous than J's. It's not being INxx specifically that makes one autonomous, but specifically being similar to an INTP. INTJ, ENTP, ISTP, and INFP are all fairly autonomous though. (If you're reading this BlueWing this is not meant to be a compliment to INTP's, lol.)
    Can you explain how you define autonomy? Do you mean a desire to be self-governing/independent/self-reliant vs. lack of that desire?

    I consider myself autonomous in the sense that I'm not a marionette, but I desire/choose to commune and connect with others. I guess by connecting with others you sometimes have to accede to their wishes which lessens autonomy. Does that desire/need make someone unautonomous? I'm confused where autonomy ends and where selfishness begins. I think most people desire autonomy in that they don't want to be controlled by other people and I don't know if this is autonomy or not.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  2. #32
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Enneagram
    6w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    9,489

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    It's either Si or Te. Not sure which.

    Basically, it's what "everybody knows." Or rather, what most people believe. It's the assumption that whatever most people seem to believe must be correct. I tend to doubt this, so I don't have it. I prefer to believe in what I actually understand.

    I usually don't value it, and call it "commoner's sense."

    (Probably because of Ni and Fe.)
    I don't think that that's common sense at all. That's tradition and convention, which are often but not always practical. I find that what someone thinks of as common sense tends to be pretty subjective...and usually both sides think that they are the most reasonable. The way I see common sense is the ability to see the most effective way of going about daily things, which is definitely not tied to tradition, unless tradition happens to have stumbled across the most efficient way already.

    I'm not sure how you could not value common sense--someone with no common sense would literally not be able to achieve anything in life.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I think ISTPs have what looks like common sense -- because they are looking at the world in a logical way. It's a "logical common sense" vs a "conventional common sense," if that makes any sense.

    But it can lead to doing dumb things, like fixing a hole in your jeans with duct tape and wearing them to class... because it works and no one should care, but the teacher does ("Doh!" would say the ISxJ... and the ISTP would just become irate at how the world is so illogical).
    That's actually what I see as being common sense, in general--the most logically effective way to do things, pretty much. And I do similar things to that alll the time (I fixed my glasses with twisted wire the other day), but nobody bothers me about it. It would be a lack of common sense to not realize that some people would look down on that, though.

    I like to think I have good common sense, but realistically I know I am too young to be very wise. Most of my lackings in common sense have to do with interpersonal relationships, which I still struggle with.

    EDIT: Oh and I think Fe's would have good common sense when it comes to how to deal with people, Te's when it comes to how to run a business, Ti's when it comes to how to solve a theoretical problem on paper, etc. Overall I'm sure there's "more-sensible" and "less-sensible" types, but I don't think it's really necessary to go into that.

  3. #33
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    8,828

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    I don't think that that's common sense at all. That's tradition and convention, which are often but not always practical. I find that what someone thinks of as common sense tends to be pretty subjective...and usually both sides think that they are the most reasonable. The way I see common sense is the ability to see the most effective way of going about daily things, which is definitely not tied to tradition, unless tradition happens to have stumbled across the most efficient way already.

    I'm not sure how you could not value common sense--someone with no common sense would literally not be able to achieve anything in life.
    Well, when I say that I don't accept common sense, I meant that I won't accept it as an excuse. If I don't understand or agree with something, and someone tells me I should because it's "common sense," and they can't explain it any better than that, I simply refuse to accept it.

    If you can explain why one way is more effective than another, then I call that understanding it. I've always believed common sense to be accepting something without understanding it.

  4. #34
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Enneagram
    6w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    9,489

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    Well, when I say that I don't accept common sense, I meant that I won't accept it as an excuse. If I don't understand or agree with something, and someone tells me I should because it's "common sense," and they can't explain it any better than that, I simply refuse to accept it.

    If you can explain why one way is more effective than another, then I call that understanding it. I've always believed common sense to be accepting something without understanding it.
    Ah ok, in that case, totally agree.

    I think if something is actually common sense it should be immediately obvious without even an explanation, but for sure it should be explainable.

  5. #35
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    3,377

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    I've never seen P's as autonomous, but as dependent. I believe the most independent type is INTJ, not INTP. INTP's don't have a lot of will power, and often give in or shy away from whatever their problem is. To me, though, ENTP's seem somewhat more autonomous than INTP's. (I think the tertiary Si is their weakness.)
    P's are dependent upon what? P's are more likely to separate themselves from the group structure which makes them more autonomous. J's are more likely to work together for the common good, while P's are more likely to simply act on their own. Note that I am not trying to compliment P's in any way by saying this, I am only stating trends and tendencies. (If anything this is more of a compliment toward J's.)

    INTJ's and INTP's both are autonomous types to be sure. On the other hand say there is a conflict within a group. As you say the INTJ has more will power, they are more likely to stick around to try to make their point be heard because they have the most beneficial and practical solution. An INTP will more easily leave the situation, because they don't feel much of a need to be a part of the group to begin with.

    Leaders are less autonomous than loners. A leader is still part of the group. The ENTJ is the type most drawn to being a leader, while the INTP is the type most drawn to being a loner. ENTP's and INTJ's are somewhere in between. They can be comfortable either as leaders or loners.
    My wife and I made a game to teach kids about nutrition. Please try our game and vote for us to win. (Voting period: July 14 - August 14)
    http://www.revoltingvegetables.com

  6. #36
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    3,377

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Can you explain how you define autonomy? Do you mean a desire to be self-governing/independent/self-reliant vs. lack of that desire?

    I consider myself autonomous in the sense that I'm not a marionette, but I desire/choose to commune and connect with others. I guess by connecting with others you sometimes have to accede to their wishes which lessens autonomy. Does that desire/need make someone unautonomous? I'm confused where autonomy ends and where selfishness begins. I think most people desire autonomy in that they don't want to be controlled by other people and I don't know if this is autonomy or not.
    I don't mean a desire to be independent. More precisely I'd say autonomy is acting and placing oneself as independent from a group as opposed to being dependent or interdependent upon a group. The most extreme autonomy being a hermit and never interacting with society. Is that selfish? Yeah it pretty much is. The opposite extreme is a person who always conforms to the group's decision regardless of what it is. Again this is quite unhealthy. Nearly everyone falls somewhere in between the two ends of the spectrum.

    When comparing types though the ESFJ is the type most likely to reach a conclusion by group consensus. That's not selfish and it's not particularly autonomous either. The INTP is the type least likely to even want to be a part of the group. I know that man is a social creature, but when it comes to the INTP I sometimes wonder. INTP's as a whole are the most autonomous.

    I also agree with the sentiment that INTP's are not particularly inclined to have a lot of common sense.
    My wife and I made a game to teach kids about nutrition. Please try our game and vote for us to win. (Voting period: July 14 - August 14)
    http://www.revoltingvegetables.com

  7. #37
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    8,828

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    P's are dependent upon what? P's are more likely to separate themselves from the group structure which makes them more autonomous. J's are more likely to work together for the common good, while P's are more likely to simply act on their own. Note that I am not trying to compliment P's in any way by saying this, I am only stating trends and tendencies. (If anything this is more of a compliment toward J's.)

    INTJ's and INTP's both are autonomous types to be sure. On the other hand say there is a conflict within a group. As you say the INTJ has more will power, they are more likely to stick around to try to make their point be heard because they have the most beneficial and practical solution. An INTP will more easily leave the situation, because they don't feel much of a need to be a part of the group to begin with.

    Leaders are less autonomous than loners. A leader is still part of the group. The ENTJ is the type most drawn to being a leader, while the INTP is the type most drawn to being a loner. ENTP's and INTJ's are somewhere in between. They can be comfortable either as leaders or loners.
    I guess I meant that they have a harder time shutting things out. They don't make a lot of friends or join a lot of groups, true. But they're that much more vulnerable and dependent on the ones they are part of. Often, they just don't have the will-power and self-determination to decide that something is bad for them, and to act on that. Sure, I'll cooperate with people to achieve something, and often just because it's easier to cooperate if you can. But if the group starts to move in a direction that interferes with my agenda, or becomes too personally draining, I can extricate myself and find another group. INxP's don't have the same ability to cut themselves out of the few groups and people they've grown close to, even if it isn't good for them. (I've seen examples of this with both INTPs and INFPs. I think it is a side effect of that tertiary Si.)

    Interestingly, ISxP's seem to find this somewhat easier...

  8. #38
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Posts
    3,272

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    Hmm, I have rarely heard common sense associated with tradition. I've only really heard it associated with practicality.
    It really seems to be what is commonly considered as "practical, sensible, common, real, usual and obvious" in my dictionary. The qualifier "commonly considered" or "mutually agreed upon" is really an essential part of it.

    A magnificient, practical but novel and carefully thought-out solution would not be "common sense". Common sense is how you open a milk carton. Design and planning is how you manufacture a milk carton in such a way that people may open it by using common sense.

    I don't feel that my Ne is anything like "common sense" in the least bit, in this sense. Most often I find what is usual and commonly accepted for any usual situation, but that's just because I've found it out before (Si). I don't think Ne has anything at all to do with common sense.

    I do use Ne to find out every context of a situation, which I can use to feed information to my "common sense" understanding. But that's a different thing. Call Ne the "other common sense" if you will, but it's not that in the usual meaning.

  9. #39
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    11,925

    Default

    I look at common sense as the ability to notice the consequences in things, with that said:

    Most: INTJ

    Least: ESFP

    (No, I'm actually not bragging.)

  10. #40
    Wannabe genius Splittet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    632

    Default

    Common sense is a swearword! Something to be looked down on! The word makes me feel sick ...

Similar Threads

  1. What is it with you INTJ's and anime?
    By ajblaise in forum Arts & Entertainment
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: 03-02-2017, 07:35 AM
  2. [ISTP] What is it about ISTPs and guns?
    By asynartetic in forum The SP Arthouse (ESFP, ISFP, ESTP, ISTP)
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 09-06-2014, 10:29 AM
  3. [MBTItm] im not sure what is it about people who want power, like control that just makes me
    By jcloudz in forum The SP Arthouse (ESFP, ISFP, ESTP, ISTP)
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 01-25-2013, 10:23 PM
  4. What is "hope," and why do I "need" it??
    By ArbiterDewey in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 03-14-2008, 05:04 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO