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Thread: Self Expression

  1. #1
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Thumbs down Self Expression

    Self expression is the soul of art. It is not technique and it is not popularity. Art is the expression of the self.

    This is not as easy as it seems for we spend the first twenty-two years of our lives gaining control and learning to conform. And then along comes a family and we spend the next twenty-two years teaching our children control and conformity. And by then we are in our fifties or sixties and it is too late.

    This is rather cruel, for our prosperous societies make a fetish of creativity. Creativity is a good thing, we are told. We should all be creative. And so large numbers now go to creative writing classes in Community Colleges and even universities.

    But no matter how many attend, no more creative writing is produced than before.

    So creative writing classes are deceptive cruelty for profit.

    What is amazing is how rare creativity is. Rather than all of us being creative, the creative are few.

    And this is because after struggling for twenty-two years to learn control and conformity we are not, under any circumstances, going to give up the gains we have made. Instead we choose to act out on our children. Our children don't know any better and we can vomit up all the control and conformity over our children. Children are therapy for those whose lives have been constricted by control and conformity. And it works - parents love their children, they simply dote on them. They love them so much we must have laws against nepotism.

    But there is no need to have laws against creative self expression because we don't want it.

  2. #2
    Senior Member proximo's Avatar
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    Every time you go to use something and find it broken, and improvise with something else instead, you're being creative.

    Every time something's not where you expected it to be and you go to look for it, you're being creative.

    Every time you perceive that a person is having difficulties and do something to help them, whether it be comforting a sad person, calming an angry person, helping someone find something they've lost, explain how something works to a confused person, and other things, you're being creative.

    If you imagine what it would be like if you won the lotto and talk about it with some friends, you're being creative.

    People fail to acknowledge or recognise the little acts of creativity that they do every day, an ability they take for granted.

    When you work with severely autistic people as I do, whose capacity for creativity is greatly limited; when you watch a kid look for something, find it not there, walk out the room, come back and look for it again in the same place, fifty times over, because they don't possess the imagination to figure out that it's Somewhere Else and think of other places to look, you come to recognise the feats of ingenuity your own brain does on a regular basis.

    Creativity is in everyday activities, not limited to works of traditional art forms. You don't have to be writing a book or composing an opera or creating a cult classic movie to be creative. Everyone does it, no matter how "repressed" or "conformist".
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  3. #3
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Thumbs down We are all creative.

    Quote Originally Posted by proximo View Post
    Every time you go to use something and find it broken, and improvise with something else instead, you're being creative.

    Every time something's not where you expected it to be and you go to look for it, you're being creative.

    Every time you perceive that a person is having difficulties and do something to help them, whether it be comforting a sad person, calming an angry person, helping someone find something they've lost, explain how something works to a confused person, and other things, you're being creative.

    If you imagine what it would be like if you won the lotto and talk about it with some friends, you're being creative.

    People fail to acknowledge or recognise the little acts of creativity that they do every day, an ability they take for granted.

    When you work with severely autistic people as I do, whose capacity for creativity is greatly limited; when you watch a kid look for something, find it not there, walk out the room, come back and look for it again in the same place, fifty times over, because they don't possess the imagination to figure out that it's Somewhere Else and think of other places to look, you come to recognise the feats of ingenuity your own brain does on a regular basis.

    Creativity is in everyday activities, not limited to works of traditional art forms. Everyone does it, no matter how "repressed" or "conformist".
    The bien-pensant tell us that we are all creative. Doesn't it make us feel good? It means we can be creative without actually being creative.

    That we are all creative is the kind of creativity you have when you are not having any creativity.

    For if we are all creative, then none are creative.

    And this is what they want. They hate the creativity in themselves and are devoted to destroying creativity in those few who are creative.

    These are the vandals who tell us that they are doing it with the best intentions in the world, and look, all the bien-pensant agree with them. Yes, look again and they are popular.

    For the best reasons in the world they pull down the true and beautiful and replace it with an image of themselves.

    But most of all they want to be in control. In fact they are in a panic that they might loose control. So they are frantic in their efforts to control those very few who are creative. And tragically they often succeed, particularly with children and the vulnerable.

    Have you noticed how popular MBTI is? Eight million every year do the test. And it is popular because it takes the place of creativity. MBTI is a substitute for creativity. It is loved by the military and business and hated by the Universities.

    All of us, they tell us, can be measured by MBTI, in just the same way we are all creative.

    Whoopee!

  4. #4
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Self expression is the soul of art. It is not technique and it is not popularity. Art is the expression of the self.

    This is not as easy as it seems for we spend the first twenty-two years of our lives gaining control and learning to conform. And then along comes a family and we spend the next twenty-two years teaching our children control and conformity. And by then we are in our fifties or sixties and it is too late.

    This is rather cruel, for our prosperous societies make a fetish of creativity. Creativity is a good thing, we are told. We should all be creative. And so large numbers now go to creative writing classes in Community Colleges and even universities.

    But no matter how many attend, no more creative writing is produced than before.

    So creative writing classes are deceptive cruelty for profit.

    What is amazing is how rare creativity is. Rather than all of us being creative, the creative are few.

    And this is because after struggling for twenty-two years to learn control and conformity we are not, under any circumstances, going to give up the gains we have made. Instead we choose to act out on our children. Our children don't know any better and we can vomit up all the control and conformity over our children. Children are therapy for those whose lives have been constricted by control and conformity. And it works - parents love their children, they simply dote on them. They love them so much we must have laws against nepotism.

    But there is no need to have laws against creative self expression because we don't want it.
    Translation: "Fi is good; Fe is evil." Heard it before.

    I imagine you believe yourself and your writing to be supremely creative, of course--which is ironic considering how often you repeat the same tired crap.

    Your little crusade against typology seems to be rooted in the fact that you're deeply, deeply hurt and offended by any attempt to "box in" your supreme creativity. Your perspective is so heavily rooted in Fi that you're unable to interpret systems like MBTI as anything other than a direct attack on your character intended to maliciously squelch your individuality and sense of self-expression.

    I assume this is why you find it necessary to continually "enlighten" the whole forum as to the nefarious conspiracy that's turned us all into zombies, but HINT: not everyone has such a bloated sense of self-importance as to believe that any attempt at categorizing his behavior constitutes a vicious personal attack.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  5. #5
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proximo View Post
    Every time you go to use something and find it broken, and improvise with something else instead, you're being creative.

    Every time something's not where you expected it to be and you go to look for it, you're being creative.

    Every time you perceive that a person is having difficulties and do something to help them, whether it be comforting a sad person, calming an angry person, helping someone find something they've lost, explain how something works to a confused person, and other things, you're being creative.

    If you imagine what it would be like if you won the lotto and talk about it with some friends, you're being creative.

    People fail to acknowledge or recognise the little acts of creativity that they do every day, an ability they take for granted.

    When you work with severely autistic people as I do, whose capacity for creativity is greatly limited; when you watch a kid look for something, find it not there, walk out the room, come back and look for it again in the same place, fifty times over, because they don't possess the imagination to figure out that it's Somewhere Else and think of other places to look, you come to recognise the feats of ingenuity your own brain does on a regular basis.

    Creativity is in everyday activities, not limited to works of traditional art forms. You don't have to be writing a book or composing an opera or creating a cult classic movie to be creative. Everyone does it, no matter how "repressed" or "conformist".
    Very well stated. This is a perfect response to the OP, imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Translation: "Fi is good; Fe is evil." Heard it before.

    I imagine you believe yourself and your writing to be supremely creative, of course--which is ironic considering how often you repeat the same tired crap.

    Your little crusade against typology seems to be rooted in the fact that you're deeply, deeply hurt and offended by any attempt to "box in" your supreme creativity. Your perspective is so heavily rooted in Fi that you're unable to interpret systems like MBTI as anything other than a direct attack on your character intended to maliciously squelch your individuality and sense of self-expression.

    I assume this is why you find it necessary to continually "enlighten" the whole forum as to the nefarious conspiracy that's turned us all into zombies, but HINT: not everyone has such a bloated sense of self-importance as to believe that any attempt at categorizing his behavior constitutes a vicious personal attack.
    Or, he does it for shits and giggles, to offer "controversial" thought: the loyal opposition, and all. :rolli:

    Don't be too sure of how deeply he believes some of the things he says. Other things, yeah, he's Fi-invested. MBTI, on this forum, I think it's to stir the pot. Repetitively.

    Personally, I don't think he cares enough about MBTI, either way.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Whoo-hoo Proximo

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    The bien-pensant tell us that we are all creative. Doesn't it make us feel good? It means we can be creative without actually being creative.

    That we are all creative is the kind of creativity you have when you are not having any creativity.

    For if we are all creative, then none are creative.

    And this is what they want. They hate the creativity in themselves and are devoted to destroying creativity in those few who are creative.

    These are the vandals who tell us that they are doing it with the best intentions in the world, and look, all the bien-pensant agree with them. Yes, look again and they are popular.

    For the best reasons in the world they pull down the true and beautiful and replace it with an image of themselves.

    But most of all they want to be in control. In fact they are in a panic that they might loose control. So they are frantic in their efforts to control those very few who are creative. And tragically they often succeed, particularly with children and the vulnerable.

    Have you noticed how popular MBTI is? Eight million every year do the test. And it is popular because it takes the place of creativity. MBTI is a substitute for creativity. It is loved by the military and business and hated by the Universities.

    All of us, they tell us, can be measured by MBTI, in just the same way we are all creative.

    Whoopee!
    Why do you think this negates proximo's claim?

    As you seem to define this "creativity":

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Self expression is the soul of art. It is not technique and it is not popularity. Art is the expression of the self.
    Art of communication.
    Art of photography.
    Art of sexuality.
    Art of writing.
    Art of painting.
    Art of living.
    Art of being.
    Art of thought.
    Art of self-discovery.

    And more...

    It's all arts of expression. Express, manifest, cause an effect.
    If it's created, it has the power to be creative.

  7. #7
    Senior Member proximo's Avatar
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    Heh, thanks. I've said all I needed to say; it still stands
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  8. #8
    Senior Member Hendo Barbarosa's Avatar
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    does anyone else think Victor sounds kind of like Frank Miller?

    For the best reasons in the world they pull down the true and beautiful and replace it with an image of themselves.
    I can just imagine him like, perched on some rooftop in the rain thinking this to himself...

  9. #9
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Or, he does it for shits and giggles, to offer "controversial" thought: the loyal opposition, and all. :rolli:

    Don't be too sure of how deeply he believes some of the things he says. Other things, yeah, he's Fi-invested. MBTI, on this forum, I think it's to stir the pot. Repetitively.

    Personally, I don't think he cares enough about MBTI, either way.
    Exactly. Everyone has their own brand of trolling, Simulated.

  10. #10
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    You're a real thumbs-down kinda guy, aren't you?

    Realistically, disbanding from the conformity of life to seek out and exist on creativity is difficult to do these days. More people may understand their desires, yet more people may understand how 'dead end' their desires may be.
    Hobbies are things people shouldn't lose sight of. The first 22 years are surrounded by opportunities for self-expression and a lot of them are investigated and taken up.
    I can't account for the rest of life because people are too keen on settling down (despite less now than earlier in existence) and i don't share in that. Perhaps they'll finger-paint a masterpiece with their children. Perhaps they consider their children their creativity (i sure as hell wouldn't, but i despise the creatures).

    I second that creativity and self-expression are existent in smaller or different forms.

    Consider, also, that people may not be in touch with their souls and themselves enough. Perhaps they have never been. How do you embrace self-expression without a good understanding of self?
    Years of conformity will either make or break that.
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