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  1. #1
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Default There's no such thing as motivating someone?

    Whilst speaking to my father last I asked him his thoughts on the whole motivating INTJs problem. His response set me thinking.
    "In the final analysis there really is no such thing as motivating someone... People motivate themselves."

    Now I've thought about this for a while I have to wonder, is this really true or is it merely an NT twist to the reality and only really relevant to definitions and concepts or is it true in practice?
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  2. #2
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    It's all about POV, after a point all questions like these become semantics. Or maybe like a koan. Or in other words rhetorical.

  3. #3
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    It's all about POV, after a point all questions like these become semantics. Or maybe like a koan. Or in other words rhetorical.
    I see what you mean and yes I reached the same conclusion before but now that I think about it the answer is unsatisfactory.

    It is not true to say that there is no way to motivate someone but it is true that they motivate themselves. Us not knowing to what degree there is an effect or how it works biologically or some such is evading the point.

    Mind you though I get to research what the hell 'koan' is now

    In regard to semantics, I came round to thinking that it's not really the definition of words which causes the problem but more the limitations we place on reality. I'll explain...

    The whole "there is no way to motivate someone, they motivate themselves" you could say was merely arguing over what is motivation but I find it's more than that. We don't see it as possible to motivate someone (unless via brainwashing) as it would disturb our concept of what we are and how much effect external influences can have upon us.

    I can see though how that could just be deliberately losing the constraints pon a subject to make it more interesting... that's been done before
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  4. #4
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Whilst speaking to my father last I asked him his thoughts on the whole motivating INTJs problem. His response set me thinking.
    "In the final analysis there really is no such thing as motivating someone... People motivate themselves."

    Now I've thought about this for a while I have to wonder, is this really true or is it merely an NT twist to the reality and only really relevant to definitions and concepts or is it true in practice?
    Heh that's like saying that you can't influence a person. No you definitely can influence people. They make the decision, but everyone can be influenced.
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  5. #5
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    Heh that's like saying that you can't influence a person. No you definitely can influence people. They make the decision, but everyone can be influenced.
    Exactly. However the choice of being influenced is with the person who you are trying to influence to some degree. Hence the confusion.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

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    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Exactly. However the choice of being influenced is with the person who you are trying to influence to some degree.
    I'm not a believer in free will, so I say it's not about choice, it's about the ability of someone else to importantly influence the person's incentives. A prerequisite for that is of course understanding the incentives that move the person. That might explain why INTJs, governed by the hidden and highly subjective Ni, can be hard for others to motivate. (We're easy as pie once you figure us out though. )

  7. #7
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Whilst speaking to my father last I asked him his thoughts on the whole motivating INTJs problem. His response set me thinking.
    "In the final analysis there really is no such thing as motivating someone... People motivate themselves."

    Now I've thought about this for a while I have to wonder, is this really true or is it merely an NT twist to the reality and only really relevant to definitions and concepts or is it true in practice?
    It makes sense, in a way. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. Basically, you can encourage someone, but you can't really motivate them to get it done. Ultimately they have to decide on it, and find the energy to do it on their own.

  8. #8
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    I'm not a believer in free will, so I say it's not about choice, it's about the ability of someone else to importantly influence the person's incentives. A prerequisite for that is of course understanding the incentives that move the person. That might explain why INTJs, governed by the hidden and highly subjective Ni, can be hard for others to motivate. (We're easy as pie once you figure us out though. )
    Hahahahahahaha.
    INTJ...easy...does not compute. Error.

    Easy as in what? As in comparison to a Herculean task? I'd consider it about the same
    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    It makes sense, in a way. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. Basically, you can encourage someone, but you can't really motivate them to get it done. Ultimately they have to decide on it, and find the energy to do it on their own.
    Ah but by moving that horse to the water are you motivating it to drink? I think so..at least in some part.

    Well unless it's an INTP horse in which case it knows you moved it there to try and motivate it to drink and as such will now die of thirst before it falls to your wicked manipulation
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  9. #9
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Hahahahahahaha.
    INTJ...easy...does not compute. Error.
    I said once you figure us out.

  10. #10
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Maybe it's a two-way street?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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