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  1. #81
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    If you're simply going by "gifted" as in "placed in a gifted program", then certainly, Pe intuitors are going to be at the top of the list... since they have the greater tendency to show off behaviors commonly associated with "giftedness". Usually, this manifests itself as both comprehension of grade-level material and lack of performance, stemming from boredom.

  2. #82
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    If you're simply going by "gifted" as in "placed in a gifted program", then certainly, Pe intuitors are going to be at the top of the list... since they have the greater tendency to show off behaviors commonly associated with "giftedness". Usually, this manifests itself as both comprehension of grade-level material and lack of performance, stemming from boredom.
    sorry not following you .....its not at all clear what is call gifteness in this case.. if it is on a gifted programme - what does that realyl mean.

    I know that quite a few people on the NT forum seem to think education is geared towards S types (which is bleedining well needs to be because they are the majority), but there ought to be some promotion of N types too.

    Are you saying that N type values are raised as beign gifted?

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    sorry not following you .....its not at all clear what is call gifteness in this case.. if it is on a gifted programme - what does that realyl mean.

    I know that quite a few people on the NT forum seem to think education is geared towards S types (which is bleedining well needs to be because they are the majority), but there ought to be some promotion of N types too.

    Are you saying that N type values are raised as beign gifted?
    No, more that "gifted" simply means "anyone who comprehends the material at the grade level, and still does not complete classwork to an acceptable level" (American definition, to be sure). As such, xNxPs are the most likely to fall under this definition, since given their natural curiosity, they will have likely learned about grade-level material earlier, and given their Ne, they will not likely care about completing their classwork if it does not comply with what they either think or feel is necessary to learning further.

  4. #84
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    No, more that "gifted" simply means "anyone who comprehends the material at the grade level, and still does not complete classwork to an acceptable level" (American definition, to be sure). As such, xNxPs are the most likely to fall under this definition, since given their natural curiosity, they will have likely learned about grade-level material earlier, and given their Ne, they will not likely care about completing their classwork if it does not comply with what they either think or feel is necessary to learning further.
    ARE YOU SERIOUS?

    So a kid who knows the work but fails to deliver is categoried as gifted?

    Here they would be exceling above and beyond the kids in the class.... that would be comprehension as well as delivery. We don't tend to segregate kids here I don't think.... but I don't have kids so can't say for sure

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    ARE YOU SERIOUS?

    So a kid who knows the work but fails to deliver is categoried as gifted?
    Usually, in the US, a kid will only get the gifted testing battery due to classroom disruption or low performance. I know this from personal experience.

    You get low grades, or act out all the time, etc... and then you get sent to the school counselor, they run a set of tests (IQ, Cognitive inventories, etc), and if you hit the right numbers, congrats! you're gifted and as a prize, you get a lifetime prescription of amphetamines, because you sure as hell aren't going to put up with the American educational system without them.

    Here they would be exceling above and beyond the kids in the class... but we don't tend to segregate kids I don't tink.... but I don't have kids so can't say for sure
    Once you're in the program/on the drugs, you tend to excel, at the expense of years of boredom. So you tend to get into things like computers or video games to deal with the lack of stimulation.

  6. #86
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Usually, in the US, a kid will only get the gifted testing battery due to classroom disruption or low performance. I know this from personal experience.

    You get low grades, or act out all the time, etc... and then you get sent to the school counselor, they run a set of tests (IQ, Cognitive inventories, etc), and if you hit the right numbers, congrats! you're gifted and as a prize, you get a lifetime prescription of amphetamines, because you sure as hell aren't going to put up with the American educational system without them.

    Once you're in the program/on the drugs, you tend to excel, at the expense of years of boredom. So you tend to get into things like computers or video games to deal with the lack of stimulation.

    LOL - you know I would have beleived you..... LOL

    Some kids here act up but they don't get treated as gifted, but I grew up on Scotland, I found a fair bit of the early curriculum was N related... measuring stuff, recognising and classifying shapes... I was taught stuff in primary 1 that was still useful in sixth year in high school....

    That said I never was too hot at the parot fashion... times table... and as a dyslexic, spelling was tricky... I was regressed in my final year at primary... I was also IQ tested each year, which was always fun to see the educational psycologist reel a bit, esp with areo spacial bits...

  7. #87
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    LOL - you know I would have beleived you..... LOL
    Dead serious on that one. See: ADHD thread

    Some kids here act up, but I grew up on Scotland, I found a fair bit of the early curriculum was N related... measuring stuff, recognising and classifyign shapes... I was taught stuff in primary 1 that was still useful in sixth year in high school....
    Yeah, kindergarten was possibly the most fun I had in elementary school. The rest of the time, I was just reading ahead in my textbooks while the teacher babbled away at the front of the classroom.

    That said I never was too hot at the parot fashion... times table... and as a dyslexic, spelling was tricky... I was regressed in my final year at primary... I was also IQ tested each year, which was always fun to see the educational psycologist reel a bit, esp with areo spacial bits...
    Heh. I remember the last time I was IQ tested (2006), the administrator was looking at me all funny by the end of it. Luckily, that calmed down when we got to the point where you had to memorize strings of numbers and then read them back (which I'm terrible at - my executive function is complete shit). Of course, the next section was general knowledge, and given that I've won about $500 in the last few months in trivia contests, well, you can imagine how that went.

    The spacial manipulation ones are fun... it's cool moving those pieces about in your head

  8. #88
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Dead serious on that one. See: ADHD thread

    Heh. I remember the last time I was IQ tested (2006), the administrator was looking at me all funny by the end of it. Luckily, that calmed down when we got to the point where you had to memorize strings of numbers and then read them back (which I'm terrible at - my executive function is complete shit). Of course, the next section was general knowledge, and given that I've won about $500 in the last few months in trivia contests, well, you can imagine how that went.

    The spacial manipulation ones are fun... it's cool moving those pieces about in your head
    I saw the ADHD thread and is certainly sounded like normal healthy inquisitive kids were being chemically supressed - NICE!..... Woulnd't happen here unless the kids was a danger to themselves or others... the onus would be on the parents or kids... I'm thinking the pharm industry needs to be controled more over there....

    The worldwide prevalence of ADHD: is it an American condition?

    Diet plays it's part too, my first time in the US I stayed in Michigan for a month, and couldn't eat much... too much sugar coating or fried food, and the MILK - OMG it was dyed I swear to god someone had done something to the milk - it was blue white and lasted a month... its not milk if it last more than 4 days....... I was horrified at the supermarked and loads of flurecent coloured kids food... WTF..... hmmm Sorry lets not do the ADHD thing...

    Kids here are not as well behaved as they could be here - but that is because of less disciplined and change in parenting style ... it's having a huge impact on kids....

    Sounds like you had similar experiences with the whole IQ test thing...

  9. #89
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    I saw the ADHD thread and is certainly sounded like normal healthy inquisitive kids were being chemically supressed - NICE!..... Woulnd't happen here unless the kids was a danger to themselves or others... the onus would be on the parents or kids... I'm thinking the pharm industry needs to be controled more over there....

    The worldwide prevalence of ADHD: is it an American condition?

    Diet plays it's part too, my first time in the US I stayed in Michigan for a month, and couldn't eat much... too much sugar coating or fried food, and the MILK - OMG it was dyed I swear to god someone had done something to the milk - it was blue white and lasted a month... its not milk if it last more than 4 days....... I was horrified at the supermarked and loads of flurecent coloured kids food... WTF..... hmmm Sorry lets not do the ADHD thing...

    Kids here are not as well behaved as they could be here - but that is because of less disciplined and change in parenting style ... it's having a huge impact on kids....

    Sounds like you had similar experiences with the whole IQ test thing...
    A few thoughts...

    First - yes, ADHD is an American phenomenon. That's because it's a societal compatibility issue, rather than a psychological disorder per se. In the UK, they call the same thing "developmental dyspraxia"... which is all good (I certainly do have problems with fine motor control, and can't keep my hands steady to save my life), but there are problems within that as well.

    As far as food goes, there's no denying how synthetic our foods are these days. However, I'm not making any judgments in the absence of empirical evidence showing that there is a correlative effect between the additions and ex-normative behaviors.

    Finally, I think parenting style is hugely overrated; that is, either exceptionally positive stimuli benefit, or exceptionally negative stimuli harm a kid, but in the end, kids are kids, and they're not going to be well-behaved. That's because a well-behaved child doesn't learn a thing, and all kids want to learn things above all else (they just disagree as to what they want to learn).

  10. #90
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post

    Finally, I think parenting style is hugely overrated; that is, either exceptionally positive stimuli benefit, or exceptionally negative stimuli harm a kid, but in the end, kids are kids, and they're not going to be well-behaved. That's because a well-behaved child doesn't learn a thing, and all kids want to learn things above all else (they just disagree as to what they want to learn).
    "societal compatibility issue" - sounds very George Orwell-ian. Co-ordination issues are P related I beleive.... seen a few write up with links to that. My dysleixia means I've got wroten hand eye co-ordiantion, actually there is a school of thought that says if kids with dyslexia do hand eye work outs it helps with the whole thing.

    I was meaning UK parenting styles... we've gone from a driven - acheivement orientated style - promoting values of advancement, into parents just wanting kids to be happy.....which is causing motivation issues.

    Changes is discipline at home and at school are causing other issues on top of this that are more behavoral. The overly nurturing nanny style is preventing kids having learning experiences and to an extent supporting childhood obesity (ofering childen choices in foods etc). It's a mjor concern here... :o

    Wooops we are totally off topic now ... woops

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