User Tag List

First 31112131415 Last

Results 121 to 130 of 168

  1. #121
    Senior Member BlueGray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5
    Posts
    474

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    Ok one step at a time...

    How many people are INTP in the normative sample?
    Not given but from the percentage roughly 330.

    Which I have already stated.
    Ne > Ti > Si >> Te > Se >> Fe > Fi > Ni
    5 so/sp
    Chaotic Neutral/Evil

  2. #122
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    3,487

    Default

    N=9320 - is the sample size for the normative data... 4828 are the gifted sample...

    INTPs in the normative = 330
    INTPs in the gifted = 582

    Total INTP across both samples = 911

    Gifted/911 = % of INTPs who are gifted

    if the sample of gifted is valid (and some of the other issues with teh sruvey are overcome), there is more than a 50% change an INTP child will be gifted... ACCORDING to this research report...

  3. #123
    Senior Member BlueGray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5
    Posts
    474

    Default

    Here is the big factor you are missing. The normative sample is a general population sample. It is NOT a sample of non-gifted.
    Ne > Ti > Si >> Te > Se >> Fe > Fi > Ni
    5 so/sp
    Chaotic Neutral/Evil

  4. #124
    Senior Member BlueGray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5
    Posts
    474

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    N=9320 - is the sample size for the normative data... 4828 are the gifted sample...

    INTPs in the normative = 330
    INTPs in the gifted = 582

    Total INTP across both samples = 911

    Gifted/911 = % of INTPs who are gifted

    IF THE SAMPLE OF GIFTED IS VALID
    That is where you are wrong.

    Total INTP across both samples = 911
    This value is completely meaningless and you then used it in an attempt to derive other information.
    Ne > Ti > Si >> Te > Se >> Fe > Fi > Ni
    5 so/sp
    Chaotic Neutral/Evil

  5. #125
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    3,487

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueGray View Post
    That is where you are wrong.


    This value is completely meaningless and you then used it in an attempt to derive other information.
    It's not wrong per sey, it's not meaniless, it's the total INTPs in the research - it just doesn't relate to a definable population... but then the research doens't as a whole

    We would need to down weight the gifted population to be representative of the population... which is crap cos the samples were taken at different times...

    But the facts remain, of the INTPS in the collective samples, 64% were gifted...

    You are of course right to say but the survies are not representative of a population, which was my point in the first place...

    What the surveys are useful for it so indicate potentials for future primary research.... but as I've said so many times there are issues with the method

  6. #126
    Senior Member BlueGray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5
    Posts
    474

    Default

    Where in the research report does it say they took a representative group of students, separated them into gifted and non-gifted and found percentages from these two groups?
    Ne > Ti > Si >> Te > Se >> Fe > Fi > Ni
    5 so/sp
    Chaotic Neutral/Evil

  7. #127
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    3,487

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueGray View Post
    Where in the research report does it say they took a representative group of students. Separated them into gifted and non-gifted and found percentages from these two groups?
    Hmm are you denying that there are more gifted INTPs than normal INTPs?

    if you look at the definitions udner the table, you will see * which relate to columns in tables wich is pretty standard notation in research.

    Sample size for Gifted is given as column N gifted c. 4800

    Sample size for the normative data = c.9000

    Please read my previous comments about the iffy-ness of the research approach - I'm fed up repeating the same thing over and over again....

  8. #128
    Senior Member BlueGray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5
    Posts
    474

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    Hmm are you denying that there are more giftedn INTPs than normal INTPs?

    if you look at the definitions udner the table, you will see * which relate to columns in tables wich is pretty standard notation in research.

    Sample size for Gifted is given as column N gifted

    Sample size for the normative data = c.9000
    I'm saying that as long as the percentage of people that are gifted is less than 1/3.4, about 29%, there are more non-gifted INTPs than gifted INTPs. If the percentage of gifted is higher there are more gifted INTPs than non-gifted INTPs.

    Which of these two cases it is can not be determined from the given data.

    How "iffy" the methodology is doesn't negate the fact that in no way shape or form does the data support what you are saying.
    Ne > Ti > Si >> Te > Se >> Fe > Fi > Ni
    5 so/sp
    Chaotic Neutral/Evil

  9. #129
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    3,487

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueGray View Post
    I'm saying that as long as the percentage of people that are gifted is less than 1/3.54, about 28%, there are more non-gifted INTPs than gifted INTPs. If the percentage of gifted is higher there are more gifted INTPs than non-gifted INTPs.

    Which of these two cases it is can not be determined from the given data.
    AVIS was attempting to say something, I just cleaned up his approach....

    I'm not denying that in the real population the gifted students would be a much smaller % (the report uses 19 sample in 14 studies, across x number of years) ... it's bollox... but if you use it as a foundation for thinking...

    the overall principals are LIKELY to hold true... N's are likely to be more intellegent... and to a minor extent NP... I's will be more represented in the gifted pop (more 50:50) than they will be in the normal population - mainly because the normal pop are E skewed...

    There is a LOT wrong with that report... you are only scratching the surface

    Wheeeeeeeeeeeew - maths online, not a good medium...

  10. #130
    Senior Member BlueGray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5
    Posts
    474

    Default

    I have simply said that the data you created to "clean up" his approach used an assumption that the normative group and gifted group were the non-gifted and gifted parts of a total group.
    You seem to understand the meaning of what the study is saying although your numbers were completely off from the given information.
    Ne > Ti > Si >> Te > Se >> Fe > Fi > Ni
    5 so/sp
    Chaotic Neutral/Evil

Similar Threads

  1. [MBTItm] easier to get on with a stupid S than a clever S?
    By Il Morto Qui Parla in forum The SP Arthouse (ESFP, ISFP, ESTP, ISTP)
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: 03-09-2009, 06:16 PM
  2. If stupidity is a great evil...
    By The Ü™ in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 09-06-2007, 10:12 PM
  3. Stupid limericks
    By ygolo in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-24-2007, 05:22 PM
  4. Humanity will become stupider?
    By JivinJeffJones in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 07-22-2007, 01:27 AM
  5. Only guys are stupid enough to do this...
    By sdalek in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 06-15-2007, 09:09 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO