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1. Originally Posted by tinkerbell
Ok one step at a time...

How many people are INTP in the normative sample?
Not given but from the percentage roughly 330.

2. N=9320 - is the sample size for the normative data... 4828 are the gifted sample...

INTPs in the normative = 330
INTPs in the gifted = 582

Total INTP across both samples = 911

if the sample of gifted is valid (and some of the other issues with teh sruvey are overcome), there is more than a 50% change an INTP child will be gifted... ACCORDING to this research report...

3. Here is the big factor you are missing. The normative sample is a general population sample. It is NOT a sample of non-gifted.

4. Originally Posted by tinkerbell
N=9320 - is the sample size for the normative data... 4828 are the gifted sample...

INTPs in the normative = 330
INTPs in the gifted = 582

Total INTP across both samples = 911

IF THE SAMPLE OF GIFTED IS VALID
That is where you are wrong.

Total INTP across both samples = 911
This value is completely meaningless and you then used it in an attempt to derive other information.

5. Originally Posted by BlueGray
That is where you are wrong.

This value is completely meaningless and you then used it in an attempt to derive other information.
It's not wrong per sey, it's not meaniless, it's the total INTPs in the research - it just doesn't relate to a definable population... but then the research doens't as a whole

We would need to down weight the gifted population to be representative of the population... which is crap cos the samples were taken at different times...

But the facts remain, of the INTPS in the collective samples, 64% were gifted...

You are of course right to say but the survies are not representative of a population, which was my point in the first place...

What the surveys are useful for it so indicate potentials for future primary research.... but as I've said so many times there are issues with the method

6. Where in the research report does it say they took a representative group of students, separated them into gifted and non-gifted and found percentages from these two groups?

7. Originally Posted by BlueGray
Where in the research report does it say they took a representative group of students. Separated them into gifted and non-gifted and found percentages from these two groups?
Hmm are you denying that there are more gifted INTPs than normal INTPs?

if you look at the definitions udner the table, you will see * which relate to columns in tables wich is pretty standard notation in research.

Sample size for Gifted is given as column N gifted c. 4800

Sample size for the normative data = c.9000

Please read my previous comments about the iffy-ness of the research approach - I'm fed up repeating the same thing over and over again....

8. Originally Posted by tinkerbell
Hmm are you denying that there are more giftedn INTPs than normal INTPs?

if you look at the definitions udner the table, you will see * which relate to columns in tables wich is pretty standard notation in research.

Sample size for the normative data = c.9000
I'm saying that as long as the percentage of people that are gifted is less than 1/3.4, about 29%, there are more non-gifted INTPs than gifted INTPs. If the percentage of gifted is higher there are more gifted INTPs than non-gifted INTPs.

Which of these two cases it is can not be determined from the given data.

How "iffy" the methodology is doesn't negate the fact that in no way shape or form does the data support what you are saying.

9. Originally Posted by BlueGray
I'm saying that as long as the percentage of people that are gifted is less than 1/3.54, about 28%, there are more non-gifted INTPs than gifted INTPs. If the percentage of gifted is higher there are more gifted INTPs than non-gifted INTPs.

Which of these two cases it is can not be determined from the given data.
AVIS was attempting to say something, I just cleaned up his approach....

I'm not denying that in the real population the gifted students would be a much smaller % (the report uses 19 sample in 14 studies, across x number of years) ... it's bollox... but if you use it as a foundation for thinking...

the overall principals are LIKELY to hold true... N's are likely to be more intellegent... and to a minor extent NP... I's will be more represented in the gifted pop (more 50:50) than they will be in the normal population - mainly because the normal pop are E skewed...

There is a LOT wrong with that report... you are only scratching the surface

Wheeeeeeeeeeeew - maths online, not a good medium...

10. I have simply said that the data you created to "clean up" his approach used an assumption that the normative group and gifted group were the non-gifted and gifted parts of a total group.
You seem to understand the meaning of what the study is saying although your numbers were completely off from the given information.

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