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  1. #101
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    So the gifted sample is valid? Hmmm...

    All of these discussions seem like people seeing what they want to see because it gives them some sort of validation.
    Yep. Which is why going off topic was much more productive. Even if there were some scientifically valid correlation, there are far too many extraneous variables to even come close to concluding a determinative effect.

  2. #102
    Senior Member BlueGray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    This is the proportion of gifted children from the MBTI category...

    I had to tweak a tiny bit to the Gifted sample to get it to add up to 100% - but relatively eavenly done.

    so Of All INTPs 64% were gifted...

    INTP 64%
    INTJ 60%
    INFJ 58%
    INFP 57%
    ENTP 55%
    ENFP 51%
    ENTJ 44%
    ENFJ 40%
    ISTJ 34%
    ISTP 29%
    ESTP 21%
    ISFJ 17%
    ISFP 17%
    ESFP 13%
    ESTJ 12%
    ESFJ 11%
    How do you get that? There was no information in the study that could give such results. That could only be done if you were given the % of the total population that is gifted or other like piece of data and no such pieces were given.
    Ne > Ti > Si >> Te > Se >> Fe > Fi > Ni
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  3. #103
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    How much of that is an actual issue, and how much of that is tribalism? Individualism is very much a defining characteristic of Western society, and in particular, the societies of Great Britain and its former colonial holdings. In the context of when Orwell and Huxley wrote, when British democracy seemed incapable of handling the stresses of the industrial era, along with the loss of Empire, is it no wonder then, that writers of the period clung to that individualism? The Huxleys of 1938 and 1958 were very different writers, for sure.



    I can't help but think that we're in somewhat unmarked territory currently, as industrialization changed everything. As we deindustrialize, we're faced with a situation whereby scarcity for staples is essentially zero; however, demand for labor increasingly diminishes as technology increases. As such, in the UK, what does a working-class or middle-class youth have to strive for? Selling mobile phones? Going to university in order to become a glorified mobile-phone salesman?



    It's not that much different either - our class structure is simply different (since ours is much more racially oriented). Look at New York in the 1970s if you want to see an apathetic city. Meanwhile, we've still encountered the same structural issues, but tried to wave them away with huge amounts of debt. If anything, the only main difference is that we've still bought into the bullshit that there's an inherent value in any kind of work, no matter how menial it is... even though we talk out the other side of the mouth whenever we say something to the effect of "well, the world needs ditchdiggers too".

    Bizarly enough society is the converse of Orwell.... when he wrote 1984 UK society was pretty balnd and lacking your triablisim... or much variety of choice at all... we are in a time of true fragmentation.... But if people are being forced to conform to an overly societaly drivne rules base then we would indeed be in an Orwelling phase. I wasn't too een on Hulexy, found him weird...

    The UK labout market is changing and will still change, but there are ranges of opportunitites.. yes plenty o service role, retail, health etc, manufacturing - although car industry is in decline, there will be other manu jobs in the offing, farming etc... we move towards more eccological and local services... banking is going through major changes as is commerce itself. Actually there will be more opportuities opening up while people mature - the babyboomers will retire... we are not a nation of phone sellers...

    I agree there is no point having graduate dichdiggers, manual labour doens't require advanced education, however there is always a spread of more intellectual jobs as well as "working class" roles.

  4. #104
    Senior Member Saslou's Avatar
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    Well If xNxP's are the most gifted, then good for them .. Although people are showing the statistics here (which can always be manipulated), i do wonder just how many of those gifted people/children went forward and produced greatness in their life .. and didn't become a fuckup/dropouts due to the pressure.
    “I made you take time to look at what I saw and when you took time to really notice my flower, you hung all your associations with flowers on my flower and you write about my flower as if I think and see what you think and see—and I don't.”
    ― Georgia O'Keeffe

  5. #105
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    I edited that for clarity.
    AVID was doing extra analysis, I did a more correct version for him.. thats all...

    It doens't say the survey is valid... HOWEVER it also doens't say the survey is unvalid, I've said that I ahve issues with the definitions... which means that the survey may be totally OK but the definitions are poorly written.

    Sorry I'm not really sure what it is you are getting at... what really is your concern here?

  6. #106
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    Sorry I'm not really sure what it is you are getting at... what really is your concern here?
    Not trying to jump down your throat, but it definitely appeared as if you were okay with the data taken from the study as long as your type was on top. Which made me laugh when I saw that because you were putting in so much time trying to oppose it, initially. If you are now saying that neither the study nor the samples are valid, okay. Just reminded me of those race/penis length/waist-to-hip ratio and IQ discussions I see on other forums.

  7. #107
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    Bizarly enough society is the converse of Orwell.... when he wrote 1984 UK society was pretty balnd and lacking your triablisim... or much variety of choice at all... we are in a time of true fragmentation.... But if people are being forced to conform to an overly societaly drivne rules base then we would indeed be in an Orwelling phase. I wasn't too een on Hulexy, found him weird...
    Late 1940s: UK won the war, but it still somehow feels like a loss. Sure, the RAF just detonated a nuke, but that feels pretty hollow considering they lost India. Our infrastructure is in shambles, no one can get a job, and the only way we aren't starving to death is post-war rations. Everything's being nationalized because we simply can't keep it running otherwise. My God, isn't there anything good about being British anymore? See: Garnett, Alf.

    The UK labout market is changing and will still change, but there are ranges of opportunitites.. yes plenty o service role, retail, health etc, manufacturing - although car industry is in decline, there will be other manu jobs in the offing, farming etc... we move towards more eccological and local services... banking is going through major changes as is commerce itself. Actually there will be more opportuities opening up while people mature - the babyboomers will retire... we are not a nation of phone sellers...
    I hope you're right, but I'm not seeing a whole lot of ways to actually produce wealth in the future. Service industries don't count, either.

    I agree there is no point having graduate dichdiggers, manual labour doens't require advanced education, however there is always a spread of more intellectual jobs as well as "working class" roles.
    What makes an intellectual job productive unless it leads to more stuff pulled out of the ground and made useful?

  8. #108
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueGray View Post
    How do you get that? There was no information in the study that could give such results. That could only be done if you were given the % of the total population that is gifted or other like piece of data and no such pieces were given.
    LOL arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrraaaaaaaaaaahhhh

    OK AVID was doing some analysis... and I simply did a cleaner job of getting him the view of the data he was interested in....

  9. #109
    Senior Member BlueGray's Avatar
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    How is your information cleaner? His information was created using actual data whereas yours has no basis.
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  10. #110
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    Not trying to jump down your throat, but it definitely appeared as if you were okay with the data taken from the study as long as your type was on top.

    Which made me laugh when I saw that because you were putting in so much time trying to oppose it, initially. If you are now saying that neither the study nor the samples are valid, okay. Just reminded me of those race/penis length/waist-to-hip ratio and IQ discussions I see on other forums.
    Sorry

    I beleive I've said repeatedly that I think the data is shonky (technical term) ... however, if the definition is cleaned up and the data is valid of the defintion, then the results hold true... My type or anyone else type is totally irelevant.... LOL The data will say what it says

    Once the data sourcing has been iussed out... it may well be that the gifted sample will hold true (or as true as close as we are going to get)....

    It's secondary data, it's never perfect the mether is grey, the defintions are very shonky...

    Big picture is that I would think even with screwy definitions, and all the other issues.. the only things that you could vaguely rely on NP thing (skew was big enough to indicate it's got a lot of wiggle room for failure) and the overall N thing (which was a massive skew)....
    you wont like that... the findings are large enough differences that they would hold true with slightly better defintions

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