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  1. #1
    Writing... Tamske's Avatar
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    Default Extravert and socializing failure...

    I hate socializing. I never look forward to it.
    For some reason, I almost always get the bad place - at the edge of the table, shut out of conversation; with a group where the members know each other for a much longer time than they know me...
    If I can't take part of a conversation, I fiercely hate being in a company. The last time I've encountered this, I had to run away with a little pretext... I'm rather lonely alone than lonely in a group. When I'm shut out of a group, I feel as if somehow I failed - again - at connecting with them.
    When, on the other hand, I can really take part of the interaction, I'm as happy as pie! Like a true extravert, I crave attention and interaction. Like a true introvert, I find it very difficult to socialize and would rather run away.

    I don't run away from socializing. I run away from failure at socializing.

    Extraverts, can you relate to this? Do you have any hints to combat this? Any techniques to integrate in a group without imposing yourself and being shut out again, or to turn a conversation towards a topic where you can take part without interrupting or making it all about you?
    Got questions? Ask an ENTP!
    I'm female. I just can't draw women

  2. #2
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    I can relate. It's not a constant thing but I've experienced it before. Imagine this. You're at the edge of the table and shut out of the conversation. Nobody is making an effort to bring you in. They're probably just as afraid to reach out as you are. Or they're just not paying attention. But all the turmoil and disconnection exists only in your imagination. You can do whatever you want to!

    Walk over, be happy and confident, and say, "Hey guys, how's it going? Is there any way I can fit in here?". (Or just say anything!) I think we are too often afraid to express our simple desires. You want to join in and there shouldn't be any fear or shame about that. So just share that desire in whatever way is natural. I think you'll be surprised that they will enthusiastically make room for another chair or help you come up with another way you can join them. If they react like snobs, which is probably unlikely, then you wouldn't want to join them anyway.

    You can't fail at socializing. You can only fail to try. You can only fail to put yourself out there. It's one of those things where the experience is more important the end result, so there's absolutely nothing to worry about. Don't ever be worried that you're imposing because, first of all, you're probably not, and if you are, you'll be able to tell and you can just back off then. No harm done, don't take it personally. It just didn't work out for whatever reason THAT time. Don't think too much about it.

    Just think of it this way. You have something to offer as a person and your intentions are genuine. You want to share joy with others. If you believe in yourself, you won't have to sell yourself, you'll just give it away for free with a smile on your face. Even if you go in and change the whole conversation to something new, who cares? No reason to feel guilty. You have just as much of a right to throw yourself into the mix as anyone else. They might even be happier and having a better time now for all you know.

    If you think it's all about you, you're in trouble. If you think nothing is about you, you're still in trouble. Find a healthy place in the middle of those two extremes.
    "When a resolute young fellow steps up the great bully, the world, and takes him boldly by the beard, he is often surprised to find that it comes off in his hand, and that it was only tied on to scare away the timid adventurers." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

  3. #3
    12 and a half weeks BerberElla's Avatar
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    I identify, it's one of the reasons that little voice still persists at the back of my head screaming at me that maybe I'm really an introvert.

    I thought maybe it was the S over N difference that always made me feel so out of place, they aren't exactly talking about anything I would talk about, so it's hard for me to join in the conversation.

    I semi try, but not by much, usually I just bow out in some way. I much prefer one on one conversations anyway.
    Echo - "So are you trying to say she is Evil"

    DeWitt - "Something far worse, she's an Idealist"

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  4. #4
    Writing... Tamske's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BerberElla View Post
    I identify, it's one of the reasons that little voice still persists at the back of my head screaming at me that maybe I'm really an introvert.
    That's exactly how I feel. I'm introvert in so many things... socializing, the need to recharge, ...
    But I lack the independency of the true introvert. Argh.
    Got questions? Ask an ENTP!
    I'm female. I just can't draw women

  5. #5
    Ruler of the Stars Asterion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamske View Post
    I hate socializing. I never look forward to it.
    For some reason, I almost always get the bad place - at the edge of the table, shut out of conversation; with a group where the members know each other for a much longer time than they know me...
    If I can't take part of a conversation, I fiercely hate being in a company. The last time I've encountered this, I had to run away with a little pretext... I'm rather lonely alone than lonely in a group. When I'm shut out of a group, I feel as if somehow I failed - again - at connecting with them.
    When, on the other hand, I can really take part of the interaction, I'm as happy as pie! Like a true extravert, I crave attention and interaction. Like a true introvert, I find it very difficult to socialize and would rather run away.

    I don't run away from socializing. I run away from failure at socializing.

    Extraverts, can you relate to this? Do you have any hints to combat this? Any techniques to integrate in a group without imposing yourself and being shut out again, or to turn a conversation towards a topic where you can take part without interrupting or making it all about you?
    In your case, it's probably just that they wont reach out and bring you in, when there's a group of people, it's hard to just waltz in and speak your mind when you don't know anyone (although it's still quite possible).

    I've had a bit of trouble with the same thing, though I've always just thrown myself into it fearlessly. I'm still working out what causes me to get drowned out, but I did notice that whenever I brought something up, the person who loves attention notices and tries to cut me off or something... he even sort of slowly pushed me out of a circle and I had to awkwardly slip in somewhere else, I'm not sure if it's all intentional or not.

    I still think I'm an introvert though , I examined my thought processes today even when under fire by a co-worker and found Ne (brainstorming ways to approach my co-worker), then Ti (making sure they make logical sense and wouldn't come off as awkward), and then later Si... but the Si was kind of abused... like, I thought: that method would be predictable---> do something you haven't done. I can't work out wtf that means...

    ummm... what was Fe???

    meh, anyway, I don't think all extraverts are unbelievably social... but I can't explain why some of them aren't. I keep thinking it might be the instincts from the enneagram (I'm a self pres ), or maybe unhealtyness/inexperience in general (like, your parents telling you that you're doing it wrong instead of letting you work it out)
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  6. #6
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    yeah... if I can't be in the center of the conversation I don't want anything to do with it... I'll admit it- I'm an attention seeking egomaniac

    *hides behind the couch*
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  7. #7
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    Yes, I can feel that way too. It often depends on the people in the conversation I'm trying to join. I went to a party this year where no one introduced me around and everyone seemed to know each other, I just hung out with my husband the whole time.

    I fail at extroverting!

  8. #8
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    My ENTP husband will have an almost claustrophobic reaction to a social situation in which he feels uncomfortable or has trouble participating -- but when he's comfortable he's the life of the party. I've noticed that he really works hard to control social situations -- if he's going somewhere where he doesn't know many people, he'll arrange to meet up with someone he knows. If there are awkward seating arrangements, like a long table, he'll practically push people out of the way to be sure he's in the middle or with a group he's compatible with (OK, I'm exaggerating, but he's extremely proactive about such things). My ENFP daughter, on the other hand, will talk to a wall just to be able to socialize. I've heard her really, really complain about certain people that don't like her or are rude to her or she doesn't like and then I'll see her in the most animated, friendly conversation with those people like they're longtime best friends. I don't know to what extent these observations generalize to these two personality types as a whole, but since people have always commented on how very alike my husband and daughter are, I find the T/F difference significant.

  9. #9
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Are you a social last in the enneagram by chance? That could explain a lot.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  10. #10
    Retired Member Wonkavision's Avatar
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    Add me to the list.

    I'm another Extravert who has a hard time socializing.

    I'm not shy, but I do have a lot of difficulty fitting in.

    I'm really abstract and tangential a lot of the time, so people often don't know what the hell I'm talking about.

    Sometimes it really pisses some people off.

    I often unintentionally offend people with off-color remarks, sarcasm, crude jokes, etc.etc.

    I'm extremely sensitive to criticism and I don't like conflict.

    When conflict occurs I generally go into all-out attack mode, because I don't want to back down but I also dont want to get hurt.

    This makes me seem like an agressive asshole when I'm actually a very soft-hearted and sensitive person.

    I have a strong need for acceptance, and if I feel I'm not getting it I get all emo.

    The list goes on and on.......

    HOWEVER-----

    I think you have to just accept that you can't please everybody, and just be yourself----let the chips fall where they may.

    What else can you do?

    It's hard, but it does generally pay off.
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