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  1. #11
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    Uh, Jen, I know what it is. My point was that I don't recognize it as a fallacy particular to Te, as TLL postulated.
    I know you know -- that was my "What we've agreed on so far" recap sentence for people who missed the earlier episodes.

    When I must trust the judgment of others, I rely on both.
    Yup, I think that makes the most sense too.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #12
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    I take issue with the notion that faith in authority is a Te thing.

    I only refer to authorities in discussions when I believe the participants (myself usually included) lack the prerequisites for a serious analysis of the question at hand, and then I do it as a reality check rather than as an actual argument (i.e. "there's really no point in us (or sometimes you ) discussing this" rather than "this is the correct answer because so-and-so says so").
    This does not negate what I said. I did not say "all people who use Te as a primary or auxiliary function behave this way". Rather I am saying that appeals to authority are an unhealthy use of Te. Not every TJ out there is unhealty. Are you denying that Te tends to focus more on the end result and Ti focuses more on the process? Appeals to authority are a result of focusing on the end result to an unhealthy degree.
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  3. #13
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    Are you denying that Te tends to focus more on the end result and Ti focuses more on the process?
    No, that I do not deny.

    I am saying that appeals to authority are an unhealthy use of Te. (...) Appeals to authority are a result of focusing on the end result to an unhealthy degree.
    I'd say appeals to authority are a result of needing to be right about something. That may be conspicuous to TJs :blushing: but not exclusive.

    Of course, appeals to authority can also be a result of having too much respect for authority. Isn't that conspicuous to SJs?

  4. #14
    Senior Member reason's Avatar
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    There is no such fallacy as the appeal to authority. In fact, most informal fallacies are not actually fallicious, but rather follow from another formal fallacy which supposes that the conclusion of a valid argument can be logically stronger i.e. have greater logical content, than the premises. In other words, most "fallacies" are contingent on a simple erroneous presupposition, and can easily be reformed to express a valid logical deduction. Of course, logical validity does not imply soundness, but then there is nothing in logic which implies an argument is sound, so the point is moot.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

  5. #15
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    I'd say appeals to authority are a result of needing to be right about something. That may be conspicuous to TJs :blushing: but not exclusive.

    I don't think that's the source of Appeal to Authority.

    Appeal to Authority is the claim that something is right because of who said it. In reality, we all "appeal" to experts to some degree - we go see a doctor and trust what he has to say (which statistically would seem foolish, but better than the alternative)...

    Te simply uses shortcuts - ie: information presented as factual without due process (for pratical or unhealthy reasons) because they focus on the next step. Ti does due process (regardless of the practicality of it).

    However, I'd say that appeal to authority as a fallacy is correlated along N-S and J-P fairly notably... the only reason it comes up as a T-F thing is because we use it more for academic (logical) rather than social (where you'd see a lot more conventionalism from moral authorities, etc).

    I'd offer up religion as a pretty typical example of internalised "Appeal to Authority", both within the church and by doctrine. WWJD?

  6. #16
    Senior Member TenebrousReflection's Avatar
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    That is the type of thing that will generate a negative reaction from me (usually just lack of respect and not anger), sometimes immediate, sometimes withheld. Usually I just roll my eyes and keep it in the back of my mind and when I have the opportunity to prove their point wrong I say something like "oh, but remember _____ said _____, how can that possibly be wrong?".

    Edit/append:
    The precise situatiosn that bother me are when the person does not make it clear that they evaluated the oppinion they are stating. Its the distiction between trusting a source as valuable information (which I have no problem with) and blindly believing somethgin because "_____ said it, it must be true".

  7. #17
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    No, that I do not deny.



    I'd say appeals to authority are a result of needing to be right about something. That may be conspicuous to TJs :blushing: but not exclusive.

    Of course, appeals to authority can also be a result of having too much respect for authority. Isn't that conspicuous to SJs?
    Yes, I can agree to that.
    My wife and I made a game to teach kids about nutrition. Please try our game and vote for us to win. (Voting period: July 14 - August 14)
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