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contingent self-worth

LeafAndSky

New member
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Messages
307
MBTI Type
ISFP
Ah, I see you have someone arriving. Can't keep up sometimes (often!) . . . posts fly by too fast.
 

ygolo

My termites win
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
5,988
Wow. I didn't check this thread for a couple days because I thought it was dead, and I come to see many answers.

Thanks for the responses. It'll take me a while to go through them. If I don't respond to your particular post, it doesn't mean anything. I may just not have had a response.
 

BlueScreen

Fail 2.0
Joined
Nov 8, 2008
Messages
2,668
MBTI Type
YMCA
I have noticed that some people, like Athenian and me, base their self-worth on finding something particular of value in themselves. This often results in low self-esteem. It does for me.

Others, on the other hand believe they have self-worth no matter what.

How would you convince someone who believes in contingent self-worth to change his/her mind?

In particular, please try to convince me that self-worth is not contingent on finding something particular of value in myself.

I've noticed other's seem to focus on achievements a lot more than ENFPs, so I'm not sure my philosophies can apply to you. But I'll give you an account anyway.

I'm a physicist and I don't care at all about what something is called or who created it. My focus is more on why it is used and what it means. The same applies for achievements. I don't take much notice of them except as activators, because to me they seem like chasing the superficial or irrelevant. ie. You take a course to learn and understand, a degree is a piece of paper you hang on a wall or a few letters to put after your name at the end of it. It has no literal meaning.

This idea probably offends a few people who dream of going to university and having a degree. And I have got called unappreciative for taking this view, because a lot of people take a piece of paper or title quite seriously. But really they mean very little except as an activator. The only reason I see for caring is that it will make it easier to do the next thing you want to do. To make these things the goal is to ignore life. You work for four years and if the main thing you get out of it is a piece of paper and a title, was that four years used well? Is it the second of joy when it is done that you do it for? Or is it the understanding and where you have progressed to that really matters? Like the second of joy must be a pretty good second of joy if you can use four years for it. Still it works to dangle this in front of people and dangle the educated/sophisticated thing in front of people. If you look at the big picture, there are so many people in this category that you don't really stand out by getting there anyway.
 

Qre:us

New member
Joined
Nov 21, 2008
Messages
4,890
I have noticed that some people, like Athenian and me, base their self-worth on finding something particular of value in themselves. This often results in low self-esteem. It does for me.

What particular thing of yours do you place a value on? This would indicate things about you that you *don't* place a value on....

So, truly, it's not 'contingent self-worth'. It's pre-existing criteria where you assign a value to a thing, and other things you don't. And, then go to find those in yourself.

Maybe question your criteria, and how they come about?
 

Chloe

New member
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
2,196
I'm pretty sure that chasing achievement in order to feel better about yourself is yet another defense mechanism. In general, NTs are more prone to do it, SJs as well, than NFs. NFs tend to become codependent more as defense mechanism; investing "too much" in relationships.
Anyway, that's okay. But IMO only temporarly. It can't make you happy long term, regardless what you achieve. Problem is when you're at the point where you seem to be now, when you believe that that's real; that self-worth is realy related to achievement. I've been on/off at that point, and it was usually when I had some underlying issues..in my case unhappiness about relationships etc. this is why i know it's false belief... unlike some friends i know who are like that whole life, ex. 2 INTPs, and aren't aware that it's defense mechanism.
what i'm trying to say, need for prove your self-worth over achievement doesnt come out of nowhere, it's related deep feelings, which you should work on... ex... try to look at your younger self and see why you wouldnt like him unconditionaly..
 

LostInNerSpace

New member
Joined
Jan 25, 2008
Messages
1,027
MBTI Type
INTP
Are you going to be a persistent pain in my ass? I want to know if I should be actively working against you. So far I have not done that. I've been giving you ideas even though I don't want to. I thought it would be selfish to hold back. But I've been collecting material. I will work against you if you insist.
 

Qre:us

New member
Joined
Nov 21, 2008
Messages
4,890
Are you going to be a persistent pain in my ass? I want to know if I should be actively working against you. So far I have not done that. I've been giving you ideas even though I don't want to. I thought it would be selfish to hold back. But I've been collecting material. I will work against you if you insist.

:wtf:
 

LostInNerSpace

New member
Joined
Jan 25, 2008
Messages
1,027
MBTI Type
INTP
Working against you means exposing every tiny weakness so FN can relentlessly hammer you. That is called leverage. I don't want to do it but I will if you back me into a corner.
 

Siúil a Rúin

when the colors fade
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
14,037
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
496
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
In particular, please try to convince me that self-worth is not contingent on finding something particular of value in myself.
Consider the person who is severely disabled either through genetics or environment, who has an intelligence level that allows for only limited functioning, who has diminished motor control and requires continual assistance for basic personal functioning, and who can become difficult to interact with when frustrated and lashing out. What worth does this person have? What does their existence mean?

I have worked with such individuals, and their life as a human being with all its limitations is still capable of perception, joy, and appreciation. A particular individual comes to my mind based on experience. When I let him hold my little lap harp he laughed with tremendous joy and enthusiasm as he strummed the strings. He also faithfully watched Shania Twain's performances on TV and would sing along at his group home. Strangely enough I have also known incredibly gifted individuals who never felt "good enough", and I wondered if they ever allowed themselves to embrace life with pure joy and appreciation. There is perception and joy within the grasp of human life even when stripped of external skills. Valuing life based on its performance is once removed from the experience of life and can cease to be life in the fullest sense. Existence is what it is within a single moment, and not the result of comparison against an external measurement. The capacity to exist is the intrinsic value of any individual.
 

simulatedworld

Freshman Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2008
Messages
5,552
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Consider the person who is severely disabled either through genetics or environment, who has an intelligence level that allows for only limited functioning, who has diminished motor control and requires continual assistance for basic personal functioning, and who can become difficult to interact with when frustrated and lashing out. What worth does this person have? What does their existence mean?

It's not nice to talk about Jaguar that way!
 

nynesneg

New member
Joined
Oct 18, 2009
Messages
357
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Enneagram
3w2
I have noticed that some people, like Athenian and me, base their self-worth on finding something particular of value in themselves. This often results in low self-esteem. It does for me.

How would you convince someone who believes in contingent self-worth to change his/her mind?

Hmmm I can relate to this to some extent. I am increasingly suprised at how much my thought processes resemble INTPs while my actions are closest resemble ENFPs. (excluding some things)

However for me, I have a very basic level of self worth - in who I am. BUT I need to reach beyond that... how I view myself greatly depends on how well I'm reaching my goals, I have such a strong innate need to go towards them.




Like right now I'm so @#$@#%$#$ frustrated with my career, or lack of progress therein. I was supposed to be making 80k with the real estate market by now! Now I hate any kind of sales even though I'm supposedly good and won an award in it.

:sigh:

I feel like my 14 y/o kid brother is doing better than I am - at least he's getting an internship through my dad. I can't even get one even though I worked my butt off and have 4 years of (useless?) skills.




/End rant of repressed thoughts.
 

wren

New member
Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Messages
384
MBTI Type
infj
Enneagram
4
i'm quite sure at some point in my very young life others didn't cherish me like i did myself and this created a conflict of self-esteem. i felt like i had it but the important people in my life felt i lacked it. so then i developed a hard ego against this bias. my ego claimed excellence for some good (and likely-to my shock- bad) inherent qualities i possessed naturally. i wanted to be loved for my good qualities only but then, alas, everything got messed up. i couldn't figure out how my truly nasty parts got in me. :shock: but i carried on :coffee: and felt that most people who saw my bad parts were also pretty cruddy too. :blush: i felt like if i could see their cruddy parts then they probably could see mine and thus it went, all because of others in the first place saw the yucky parts of me. damn you all! :steam:
 

nynesneg

New member
Joined
Oct 18, 2009
Messages
357
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Enneagram
3w2
I'll go on the damn everybody crusade with you! ;) As for your comment, yes it's really annoying when past employers, teachers, and many people say all kinds of positive things about you. But when it comes down to the people it really matters to, they just don't see the same thing. But then I look back to myself, to try to learn to more clearly communicate my strengths in a way beneficial to them.

My older sister told me this week I need more self esteem. Are you kidding?! Common seriously. I'm one of the most friendly confident people my age, I naturally believe I can do anything I set my mind to. I've become just really jaded I guess...?


Uh yeah.. So I probably shouldn't derail this thread. lol And these thoughts are better left suppresed in my complaints box while I get myself to go be productive and solve my problem. Thank you for listening. *waves at audience* Some people have been irritating recently.
 
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